I think the original post was a bit 'reaching', considering all the variables that would have to be overlooked to consider it a comparison at all. Thanks for posting the plethora of dyno plots Bryan .

 

What, you're not satisfied with the "facts" in this thread. Two totally different cars with different mods and different fuel on different dynos and some idiot thinks he's comparing turbos. What a joke. Wonder what got 9sec9's panties in such a wad that he had to post this crap.

 

wouldnt say 9sec9 is an idiot, from what i read he is a pretty intelligent guy. He was just trying to get some facts which is fine. Everybody should be open for that.

 

ok,

I just got message from 9sec9 Tom on my voicemail- I really like this guy..... I think what he posted was really misinterpreted by how he titled his thread...

it is more of a discussion of some different turbos and boost control issues.... was not an attempt to stand these two turbos etc nose to nose...


that being said I wonder if we can "Retitle" this thread or start another to get his discussion back on track... in which I think GST/razorlab could put in some valuable input as could DB, on running these things on MBCs or EBCs

9sec9 if you read this anytime soon, please reiterate what you described to me on the phone...

cheers

happy friday

cb

 

Nice read throughout. It took me a while to get through it but all in all it's a good read for the community.

 

I completely agree with this statement with emphasis on ridiculous.
only way to compare these turbo is on the same day same car. The rest is bench racing at its finest.

 

id like 9sec9 to get to respond before it goes any further... the fact that he has no affiliation with us whatsoever, aside of being a client of our friends at BR, he left me a professional message....

Let's give the the thread a break until he can respond.

cheers

cb

 

How could anyone build a stock appearing turbo and not have at least some notion of what you wanted to do better than what FP has done? Seems strange to me. Nothing wrong with trying to better what is out there. Kudos. But FP has such a wide range of stock appearing offerings it's hard for me to imagine what your target was if it wasn't something similar to an FP product.

 

they wanted a turbo for their clients and have the customer service of cbrd which is amazing (they will do anything to please their clients), he said it like 10 times now. alrite im logging off

 

granted we like the green, the red performs well......

I always liked the stock ix turbo....

i LOVE the 50 trim turbo for the street, but the cost to switch to it and a tubular manifold etc isnt the best alternative for most... and i think 35R's and such arent fun street turbos on pump....

but this turbo we have specific goals, like trying to match stock spool up.... and also maintain high boost levels at redline...

the biggest goal we had was our clients saying "the performance of the turbo is awesome just like the customer service"

cb

 

It's not the facts, it's the attempt to draw any conclusions from the "facts". Different cars, different mods, different dynos, different fuel, different tuners... Only an idiot draws conclusions from this.

 

Sounds to me you have bigger issues with Tom then just this thread.
Anyway waiting.........HELLO.......TOM.....


Chris

 

Holy cow. Chad, thanks for the post. The thread is doing what it was intended. Discussion of variables. I knew going in that the two cars had major differences. I've also done enough back to back tests that I understand having ALL conditions equal if possible. Back when I tested the new stage 3 build over the stock build, we were using a Green with HKS cams. I insisted on putting the HKS cams back in, because the head had been ported. All else was left the same. More work for David and Daniel, but I NEEDED to keep it all the same, except the build and ported head. This gave me a baseline to work with. SO I UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES. I've proven that. With that said, I'm very sincere when I say that personalities, sponsorships, vendors, customers,...nothing matters but getting good valid comparisons out. The way to do this is to sometimes be controversial and promote discussion. I've met some of the CBRD gentlemen and am very impressed with what they do and are doing. This is not a personality issue. I wanted to know 2 things. 1: What makes one turbo better than another on pump gas? 2: Were the references being made about the BBK FULL and the FP_Green valid. The fact was being used to say how well the BBK held boost up top. I had experience that said my Green had held boost well to, but substantially higher starting points at peak torque. Was this the result of the EBC? I don't think it can be denied that an EBC holds boost bettter than an MBC up top. At least, if it doesn't, the boost level probably didn't need the EBC to begin with. Anyway, the end result is that we have an offer to back to back test a couple of turbos. We've noted the EBC vs MBC as a reason for at least part of the difference. And I've once again been called an idiot and that's ok. I'm intelligent enough to have understood in advance that being 'radical' and ridiculous with comparisons gets results. Chad, you're a gentleman for understanding where I was coming from. Sometimes hype gets in the way of facts and sometimes some peoples posts are ALWAYS meant to dispute the facts.

If the list of 'proper testers' were to be believed, we would have have to exclude anyone who's purchased and FP or CBRD turbo for turbo testing, since they would be nutswingers. We would have to exclude all shops who sell 1 cam, but not another for cam testing, since it's not in their interest. Well, you get the picture. All we would have left would be those customers who have never made a purchase and don't know come here from sic'em. I hope that in the future open discussion concerning ANY details of a test aren't looked upon as nutswinging, but valid arguments to intelligently consider. Again, thanks to CBRD, GST Motorsports, Buschur, Force Performance and everyone else who have ultimately lead to this discussion.
As for HEAT, the previous poster about less heat missed the entire point. HEAT makes horsepower in the hotside, not the other way around. As does pressure differentials and velocity of the air, etc. David said it very well when he said that E-85 is much closer to C16 than the simple octane rating. That was also my point on the 'flawed comparison' I made.
Each and every detail becomes important when doing comparisons. I've seen David work his butt off just to get the facts equal. He's even lectured me on it. I didn't start the BBK Full vs FP_Green comparison. I simply pointed out the fact that MOST of the Greens that I've been involved with were not using EBC. The comparison at same boost, same type dyno, very similar temps and elevation (I assume that, sorry), very similar fuels (as even David stated, not the same, but pretty darn close with the edge even possibly going to the E-85 for spool up), ...well, enough. Now at least we have a thread to thrash the details. Would I have accepted the comparison I made if I were you,...Nope, but it DID get results for a test and questions concerning EBC vs MBC and discussion, finally, about fuels affect on spoolup in one turbo vs another. On that subject, I would like to see more facts. ONCE AGAIN, thanks to Chad and CBRD for seeing my reasoning.
tom

 

I am going to post the 'plotted' dyno charts that I used when I plotted the BBK results over Davids and our Greens. Davids and ours were overlayed at Buschur Racing. I used the posted chart of the recently 're-tuned' BBK Full to extract plot points, then penciled between them. It's as close as I could get to make my visual comparisons. As you will see, they are much closer than you would have assumed and you could clearly see why I used these for reference, even though the cars were nearly dyno'd 3 years apart, etc, etc.
I'll have it up in a few minutes.

OOOPS. Sorry, the one I'm posting is Davids plotted over the GST chart, not the other way around.

 

Sorry Chris, I have no idea who Tom is and he can confirm he has no idea who I am. Not even sure why pointing out how stupid this comparison is means I have a problem with Tom. It's an idiotic comparison and anyone with half a brain sees this, different cars, mods, dynos, tuners, fuel... It's complete BS.