That's all okay, as long as we get our details the same and the back-to-backs. It was obviously important on one side or the other, based on the reads and posts. The importance of paying attention to all factors has at least been expressed. In the end, if we as a group are going to question the Buschur's, FP's, CBRD's of the world, then no-one should be immune to questioning the details, including me.

 

cb

 

If the thread is finished, maybe the mods should go ahead and delete it. I have no problem with that.

 

9sec9

Thanks for the thread. Seriously. The debate is fun. But now that i feel as though I've expressed my concerns/opinions, I'm done here. Anything more on my part is just going make me Those that can understand the topic and discussion should have the info to be able to make up their own informed/intelligent opinions.

It would be ashamed for it to get deleted but pehaps getting locked is a good idea.

 

evodood, it's winter and crappy outside. Like schiedes eluded to, cabin fever, no racing. Some wasted their time, others learned, while some of us lowered the AVERAGE intelligence of the entire community. In the end, we're all after the same thing, results. We all enjoy the same thing, our Evos and we all have our opinions and facts. It's all in good fun and maybe something was extracted from all of the posts.

 

Prolly the only good thing that will come of this thread is that maybe some tuner will actually do a back to back from these turbos. There is obviously great interest in the results. I am surprised its not been done already.

 

exactamundo. Probably not a word, but in 9sec9'ese it means exactly on mark. I'm not always known for being in step. Sometimes I'm capable of getting ridiculous, but it's results I'm after. Even the jester has his day in court.

 

i respect you guys for all you have done for this community... but this thread is such a FAIL.

Bryan, cbrd, 9sec9, BR... why are you guys or anyone wasting your time with this. Someone step up with a bbk and green/red. Ask Brian and someone with a green/red if they are willing to do back to back runs over at GST for a real comparison on the same car. I would do it but i have a stock ix turbo


-Will

 

it makes for some interesting reading,

doesnt bother me in the least,

regardless, these discussions mean all of us are pushing the evo community further..

cb

 

I think David has already volunteered his time and dyno. Maybe GST could do the same and we could have 2 good back to backs to review. It would be good to see a White style compressor with the Green turbine, since that would probably be a better comparison. New tech vs new tech. Is it really a FAIL if it causes the comparison that everyone wants? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

 

Seriously, this thread got out of control. I see where you are coming from 9sec9, and I think your intentions were good, but whereas your thread was to provide some information against all of the "nut swingers" passing around hear-say about this new turbo, I initially took it as an attack against the BBK turbo. I understand that this wasn't your intention but, as you can tell from the initial response, that is the way it was interpreted.

You add a great deal to this forum however, your initial post was so "apples-to-oranges" that it held little credibility. I read the initial posts this morning over breakfast, but after all of the Plato I have been reading lately, I just can't read the rest of the thread. There is one sentence I found while skimming that I would like to refute.


When speaking of large turbo's which do not run out of steam up top I would agree. BUT when it comes to smaller stock frame turbo's (my experience in this case, being the stock 8 turbo) which cannot produce to same boost level at high rpms as compared to peak boost, this is not the case. Most EBC's, (we're not talking about an EBC solenoid controlled by say, an AEM) have a maximum duty cycle of 90% which will not allow you to get the full amount of boost from a turbo. A MBC however, will effectively increase it's duty cycle from peak boost as it drops, giving you more boost up top because in high boost cases, it will completely stop sending a boost signal to the wastegate actuator. In my REAL WORLD testing (not being a jerk) I have noticed that in a stock turbo, going from a properly setup AVC-R (one of the best EBC's) to a Forge MBC, I was able to pick up 3.5mph on average. This WAS on the same day, the runs were about 5 minutes apart, and no other variable's were changed.

Before I go, hats off to Chad (as always) for his professionalism and to you as well, 9sec9, for continually advancing the community, although we do, sometimes, hit bumps in the road.


-Boltz.

 

Off topic a bit, Sometimes when I write new software, I put it out for the user to give me their opinions, even though I know it's not ready. I know where I'm going. By doing that, though, I hear ideas from different angles. Some relative, some not. The main thing is, it opens up my 'baby' to discussion and I take all of it as constructive criticism. I've written software for companies all over the U.S. for nearly nearly 30 years. Many different languages and operating systems. In the end, the program was always better after the discussion. Ideas were formed, concepts were discussed and I either accepted them or rejected them, but at least, I had input. Sorry for RUINING the thread with the OT Now, back to the discussions.

 

Good post Boltz. Based on that, I would assume that the drop off of the Green on the MBC would have been GREATER with the EBC? I understand nothing is absolute, but it's this kind of discussion that I had hoped for after thrashing was over. I've got so many bumps and bruises, that anymore would be meaningless, but still, I prod on.

 

Boltz is referring to an external component style EBC. ECU controlled boost does not have the drawback of only being capable of 90% duty. With ECU controlled boost you can specify whatever duty cycle you want at specific rpms. With a corrective loop you can also specify the boost level that your specified duty is supposed to achieve and allow the ECU to add or subtract duty to make sure that it does. Bryan tunes his cars with ECU controlled boost.

 

Why would an MBC at high boost stop sending any pressure to the actuator? The MBC at peak boost is seeing X psi and at higher revs is seeing the same or less depending on what is happening at the gate. The way I think about a MBC is it is like a fixed duty cycle solenoid. Maybe I am missing something?