First EVO8 APEXi Power FC installed
EvoM Guru
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From: D/FW, TX
BTW, silver surfer, Mohammed at MZM called Ari up and Ari was asking him about the d-jetro units. As far as my knowledge goes, and Apexi have confirmed this, the only advertisted, in stock d-jetro power FC units avaliable now are through MZMperformance.com, they are the only one that at least register the product with apexi thus far.
I was not even supposed to mention that I have one until we got through the "beta testing", since you posted I felt compelled to at least correct the issue regarding pricing.
I think he was curious where Mohammed got his from since he usually buys these items through Ari. Not to mention that the price you quoted here is actually way, way over what the actual retail cost is going to be. It is my understanding that the basic plug and play unit will retail for $895 and the D-Jetro version is $980, (the added cost is due to the additional map sensor required). Last I knew the ECU's were in, but the Map sensor was back ordered.
I have a couple of concerns regarding your particular car. We also have the same type of Mustang dyno in our area, at a recent dyno day stock EVO's were showing 230-242 WHP. The one car that only made 230 was done late in the day after the temp had gone up over 20 degrees (105). I realize that all of these active load dynos have settings that can make them show wildly different numbers but.... It seems that there is obviously something not right about your car, faulty knock sensor, or something, I would suggest finding the problem before you start modifying it to much.
Ari is a certified APEXI Power FC tunner and from what I am told, the biggest APEXI Power FC distributor in TX.
This means that he has the APEXI tunner interface and software, this is what we are using to test and tune with, it is an extremely powerful tunning tool. The Datalogic system that will be available very soon gives you about 85% of the functionalty provided by the APEXI tunner interface. Please tell me you guy's are not trying to develop maps using just the commander! Mohammed's thumbs must be really sore by now.
While the commander is a neat little unit, it is completely inadequate for this type of test and tune. It is a nice monitoring device and good for making minor corrections only. Your seeing only about 10% of the true capability of this ECU with the comander.
I know you mean well, but pushing these systems out to the general public without first testing for any unforseen problems and establishing some good base maps for a variety of modification states is a mistake. Hell final pricing wasn't even in until last week.
BTW here is a Mustang dyno pull of my car with just a test pipe, MBC (18-19PSI), K&N stock filter, and a Greddy DV. It was done on a 100 degree+ day.
Last edited by SILVER SURFER; Oct 8, 2003 at 12:11 AM.
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Originally posted by SILVER SURFER
Um no, Ari actually has both, he just did not want to start marketing these units until he had a chance to beta test a few systems and develop some good maps. He also wanted to make sure there were no issues with this system before he started selling them to the general public.
I was not even supposed to mention that I have one until we got through the "beta testing", since you posted I felt compelled to at least correct the issue regarding pricing.
I think he was curious where Mohammed got his from since he usually buys these items through Ari. Not to mention that the price you quoted here is actually way, way over what the actual retail cost is going to be. It is my understanding that both systems will retail for $895 but the D-Jetro version required an additional map sensor that will make that version come in slightly over $1K. Last I knew the ECU's were in, but the Map sensor was back ordered.
I have a couple of concerns regarding your particular car. We also have the same Mustang dyno in our area, at a recent dyno day stock EVO's were showing 230-242 WHP. And the one car that only made 230 was done late in the day after the temp had gone up over 20 degrees (105). I realize that all of these active load dynos have settings that can make them show wildly different numbers but.... It seems that there is obviously something not right about your car, faulty knock sensor, or something, I would suggest finding the problem before you start modifying it to much.
Ari is a certified APEXI Power FC tunner and from what I am told, the biggest APEXI Power FC distributor in TX.
This means that he has the APEXI tunner interface and software, this is what we are using to test and tune with, it is an extremely powerful tunning tool. The Datalogic system that will be available very soon gives you about 85% of the functionalty provided by the APEXI tunner interface. Please tell me you guy's are not trying to develop maps using just the commander! Mohammed's thumbs must be really sore by now.
While the commander is a neat little unit, it is completely inadequate for this type of test and tune. It is a nice monitoring device and for making minor corrections only. Your seeing only about 10% of the true capability of this ECU with the comander.
I know you mean well, but pushing these systems out to the general public without first testing for any unforseen problems and establishing some good base maps for a variety of modification states is a mistake. Hell final pricing wasn't even in until last week.
BTW here is a Mustang dyno pull of my car with just a test pipe, MBC (18-19PSI), K&N stock filter, and a Greddy DV. It was done on a 100 degree+ day.
Um no, Ari actually has both, he just did not want to start marketing these units until he had a chance to beta test a few systems and develop some good maps. He also wanted to make sure there were no issues with this system before he started selling them to the general public.
I was not even supposed to mention that I have one until we got through the "beta testing", since you posted I felt compelled to at least correct the issue regarding pricing.
I think he was curious where Mohammed got his from since he usually buys these items through Ari. Not to mention that the price you quoted here is actually way, way over what the actual retail cost is going to be. It is my understanding that both systems will retail for $895 but the D-Jetro version required an additional map sensor that will make that version come in slightly over $1K. Last I knew the ECU's were in, but the Map sensor was back ordered.
I have a couple of concerns regarding your particular car. We also have the same Mustang dyno in our area, at a recent dyno day stock EVO's were showing 230-242 WHP. And the one car that only made 230 was done late in the day after the temp had gone up over 20 degrees (105). I realize that all of these active load dynos have settings that can make them show wildly different numbers but.... It seems that there is obviously something not right about your car, faulty knock sensor, or something, I would suggest finding the problem before you start modifying it to much.
Ari is a certified APEXI Power FC tunner and from what I am told, the biggest APEXI Power FC distributor in TX.
This means that he has the APEXI tunner interface and software, this is what we are using to test and tune with, it is an extremely powerful tunning tool. The Datalogic system that will be available very soon gives you about 85% of the functionalty provided by the APEXI tunner interface. Please tell me you guy's are not trying to develop maps using just the commander! Mohammed's thumbs must be really sore by now.
While the commander is a neat little unit, it is completely inadequate for this type of test and tune. It is a nice monitoring device and for making minor corrections only. Your seeing only about 10% of the true capability of this ECU with the comander.
I know you mean well, but pushing these systems out to the general public without first testing for any unforseen problems and establishing some good base maps for a variety of modification states is a mistake. Hell final pricing wasn't even in until last week.
BTW here is a Mustang dyno pull of my car with just a test pipe, MBC (18-19PSI), K&N stock filter, and a Greddy DV. It was done on a 100 degree+ day.
I bought non D-jetro Power FÑ can I use MAP sensor?
Part numbers Power FC plus commander are 414-M001 and 415-X001
EvoM Guru
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 559
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From: D/FW, TX
Hate to tell you, but if your ECU is in fact for an EVO 6 I do not think it will work in the EVO 8. I was told that there were hardware changes even comming from the EVO 7.
The Commander part number does seem to be the same though.
The Commander part number does seem to be the same though.
EvoM Guru
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 559
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From: D/FW, TX
OAT,
I was not trying to be insulting, I apologize if I came accross that way. My intention was to help you and MZM from possibly making a costly mistake. I was simply trying let you know that after what I have seen, the Commander is simply not adequate for testing and tunning at this level, especially for the D-jetro version.
As a main distributor of this product, Ari is very interested in making sure everything is right before they end up in customer cars. Ari speaks highly of Mohammed, and I am sure when he has the proper tools he can easily test and tune this system. The simple fact is, at this momment he does not have the proper tools to do so.
I do not speak for Ari, and he is not the type to jump on internet forums, but from what I understand he has a good working relationship with MZM. I am sure that he would be more than happy to help you and MZM out regarding the test & tune on your Power FC.
From what I have seen the APEXI tunning interface/software would probably show why your particular car seems to be making less power than others, stock and/or modified.
Regarding the Mustang dyno, we have also done fourth gear pulls and changed the entered weight. We found that in fourth gear the car actually made more power according to the dyno, and changing the weights +/- 300lbs made almost no difference in the readings. Perhaps MZM and FIS should talk to find out what settings each of them are using. What ever setting FIS is using, there results seem to fall right in line with what we see on the AWD Dyno Jet systems. IMO this is probably more accurate, and certainly is much better for trying to compare with other cars and dynos.
Kind regards,
Eric
I was not trying to be insulting, I apologize if I came accross that way. My intention was to help you and MZM from possibly making a costly mistake. I was simply trying let you know that after what I have seen, the Commander is simply not adequate for testing and tunning at this level, especially for the D-jetro version.
As a main distributor of this product, Ari is very interested in making sure everything is right before they end up in customer cars. Ari speaks highly of Mohammed, and I am sure when he has the proper tools he can easily test and tune this system. The simple fact is, at this momment he does not have the proper tools to do so.
I do not speak for Ari, and he is not the type to jump on internet forums, but from what I understand he has a good working relationship with MZM. I am sure that he would be more than happy to help you and MZM out regarding the test & tune on your Power FC.
From what I have seen the APEXI tunning interface/software would probably show why your particular car seems to be making less power than others, stock and/or modified.
Regarding the Mustang dyno, we have also done fourth gear pulls and changed the entered weight. We found that in fourth gear the car actually made more power according to the dyno, and changing the weights +/- 300lbs made almost no difference in the readings. Perhaps MZM and FIS should talk to find out what settings each of them are using. What ever setting FIS is using, there results seem to fall right in line with what we see on the AWD Dyno Jet systems. IMO this is probably more accurate, and certainly is much better for trying to compare with other cars and dynos.
Kind regards,
Eric
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Originally posted by SILVER SURFER
Hate to tell you, but if your ECU is in fact for an EVO 6 I do not think it will work in the EVO 8. I was told that there were hardware changes even comming from the EVO 7.
The Commander part number does seem to be the same though.
Hate to tell you, but if your ECU is in fact for an EVO 6 I do not think it will work in the EVO 8. I was told that there were hardware changes even comming from the EVO 7.
The Commander part number does seem to be the same though.
EvoM Guru
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 559
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From: D/FW, TX
So I am guessing you have an EVO 6? I do not think that I am qualified to properly answer your question, especially for an EVO 6, but here is my best guess based on what I know about the EVO 8 Power FC.
There are two distinct versions of the Power FC, the basic version is plug and play, and it uses the MAF and TPS sensor for load points. This version cannot be converted to speed density. The EVO 8 does have a stock MAP sensor but it is not used for fuel/ign load points, but you can monitor boost with the Power FC for data logging. If you have this type of ECU and the EVO 6 version works the same way then there is no point in getting the APEXI MAP sensor.
The Power FC D-Jetro version utilizes a speed density configuration so you can remove the MAF sensor, but you need to add a seperate MAP sensor from APEXI. At this momment the D-Jetro ECU's are in, but the $85 MAP sensor is back ordered.
At present we are concentrating on the standard Power FC version since it is actually most suitable for the majority of enthusiast. Unless your planning to build a monster drag car, IMO retaining the MAF system is far more desirable. The standard power FC can be easily programed to utilize different/larger MAF sensors if so desired. It has preset MAF sensor selections for 3-4 of the most common MAF sensors and you can also customize the MAF sensor response signal to compensate for just about any sensor or configuration.
I hope that makes sense and helps you.
Regards,
Eric
There are two distinct versions of the Power FC, the basic version is plug and play, and it uses the MAF and TPS sensor for load points. This version cannot be converted to speed density. The EVO 8 does have a stock MAP sensor but it is not used for fuel/ign load points, but you can monitor boost with the Power FC for data logging. If you have this type of ECU and the EVO 6 version works the same way then there is no point in getting the APEXI MAP sensor.
The Power FC D-Jetro version utilizes a speed density configuration so you can remove the MAF sensor, but you need to add a seperate MAP sensor from APEXI. At this momment the D-Jetro ECU's are in, but the $85 MAP sensor is back ordered.
At present we are concentrating on the standard Power FC version since it is actually most suitable for the majority of enthusiast. Unless your planning to build a monster drag car, IMO retaining the MAF system is far more desirable. The standard power FC can be easily programed to utilize different/larger MAF sensors if so desired. It has preset MAF sensor selections for 3-4 of the most common MAF sensors and you can also customize the MAF sensor response signal to compensate for just about any sensor or configuration.
I hope that makes sense and helps you.
Regards,
Eric
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
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Originally posted by SILVER SURFER
So I am guessing you have an EVO 6? I do not think that I am qualified to properly answer your question, especially for an EVO 6, but here is my best guess based on what I know about the EVO 8 Power FC.
There are two distinct versions of the Power FC, the basic version is plug and play, and it uses the MAF and TPS sensor for load points. This version cannot be converted to speed density. The EVO 8 does have a stock MAP sensor but it is not used for fuel/ign load points, but you can monitor boost with the Power FC for data logging. If you have this type of ECU and the EVO 6 version works the same way then there is no point in getting the APEXI MAP sensor.
The Power FC D-Jetro version utilizes a speed density configuration so you can remove the MAF sensor, but you need to add a seperate MAP sensor from APEXI. At this momment the D-Jetro ECU's are in, but the $85 MAP sensor is back ordered.
At present we are concentrating on the standard Power FC version since it is actually most suitable for the majority of enthusiast. Unless your planning to build a monster drag car, IMO retaining the MAF system is far more desirable. The standard power FC can be easily programed to utilize different/larger MAF sensors if so desired. It has preset MAF sensor selections for 3-4 of the most common MAF sensors and you can also customize the MAF sensor response signal to compensate for just about any sensor or configuration.
I hope that makes sense and helps you.
Regards,
Eric
So I am guessing you have an EVO 6? I do not think that I am qualified to properly answer your question, especially for an EVO 6, but here is my best guess based on what I know about the EVO 8 Power FC.
There are two distinct versions of the Power FC, the basic version is plug and play, and it uses the MAF and TPS sensor for load points. This version cannot be converted to speed density. The EVO 8 does have a stock MAP sensor but it is not used for fuel/ign load points, but you can monitor boost with the Power FC for data logging. If you have this type of ECU and the EVO 6 version works the same way then there is no point in getting the APEXI MAP sensor.
The Power FC D-Jetro version utilizes a speed density configuration so you can remove the MAF sensor, but you need to add a seperate MAP sensor from APEXI. At this momment the D-Jetro ECU's are in, but the $85 MAP sensor is back ordered.
At present we are concentrating on the standard Power FC version since it is actually most suitable for the majority of enthusiast. Unless your planning to build a monster drag car, IMO retaining the MAF system is far more desirable. The standard power FC can be easily programed to utilize different/larger MAF sensors if so desired. It has preset MAF sensor selections for 3-4 of the most common MAF sensors and you can also customize the MAF sensor response signal to compensate for just about any sensor or configuration.
I hope that makes sense and helps you.
Regards,
Eric
You see I have turbo kit GT3037S and big turbo has 100mm inlet diameter, but standart air flow sensor has 67mm. Should I replace standart air flow sensor or use hand made suction kit? That's why I am asking you about Apexi MAP sensor.
EvoM Guru
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 559
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From: D/FW, TX
Well, that really depends on what your ultimate goal is and how much you want to spend. We have already seen some impressive HP being made with the stock MAF assembly. If your trying to make even more, you will eventually need to go with a larger MAF assembly with your current Power FC and then program/tune it. Or get the D-Jetro version (or...) and remove the MAF all together.
With out knowing your specific goals and situation, I do not think any one could give you a straight answer.
With out knowing your specific goals and situation, I do not think any one could give you a straight answer.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
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Originally posted by SILVER SURFER
Well, that really depends on what your ultimate goal is and how much you want to spend. We have already seen some impressive HP being made with the stock MAF assembly. If your trying to make even more, you will eventually need to go with a larger MAF assembly with your current Power FC and then program/tune it. Or get the D-Jetro version (or...) and remove the MAF all together.
With out knowing your specific goals and situation, I do not think any one could give you a straight answer.
Well, that really depends on what your ultimate goal is and how much you want to spend. We have already seen some impressive HP being made with the stock MAF assembly. If your trying to make even more, you will eventually need to go with a larger MAF assembly with your current Power FC and then program/tune it. Or get the D-Jetro version (or...) and remove the MAF all together.
With out knowing your specific goals and situation, I do not think any one could give you a straight answer.
Is the Power FC difficult to install or simply a harness plug and
play of the ECU (which is conveniently right behind the glovebox)
???
Any major gain by getting the D-Jetro version?? D-Jetro will
require some installation work to remove and replace the stock
MAF sensor only right?
play of the ECU (which is conveniently right behind the glovebox)
???
Any major gain by getting the D-Jetro version?? D-Jetro will
require some installation work to remove and replace the stock
MAF sensor only right?