Not to rain on your parade here but your design is faulty and will only cause your turbo to spool later. The wastegate area is not divorced between the two collectors and are just going to have a negative affect. This way worked well on single scrolls but not with a twin scroll. So far I have been the only one to successfully make a working system.

 

oh man, that is sexy...needs some pics of the one with the external dump installed!!!

 

Couple of questions for you:

Do you have any testing to back up your theory?
What is your background in regards to airflow?
How do you explain the success of any O2 housing currently available on the market?

I sincerely hope that you have good answers to the above questions otherwise you should think twice before making such an accusation.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade but I have never heard of you, what credentials do you have saying this? MAP gives to the EVO community and makes quality products, as far as I can tell.

You have to provide factual data and PROVE what you say, I say a lot of stuff but without anything to backup my theory it's all talk.

If you do in fact have data please post, I am in no way trying to offend you in any way just stating the fact that this happens all the time. Everyone thinks they are experts and get behind a computer on a forum and provide no knowledgeable data at all, it's all junk!

Let's see that working system you designed.

~Zach

 

Pics are on page two of Revmotos work. Also a nice piece

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...k-turbo-2.html

 

I take back what I said about you Rev, just people need to step up and say why they think it will not work and not just that it will not work.

He should have linked us to his post if he "wants to contribute a test to the EVO community" as he says in his posts.

Rev, did you get a chance to test your results, MAP has apparently tested and have not found a design flaw, they have a dyno and also have picked up power by going with a open dump design.

~Zach

 

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly he thinks he did differently to make such a bold accusation? If he is using just one wastegate (which appears to be the case) then the exhaust gases are still combining at some point before the wastegate?

 

Exactly, I was wondering the same thing honestly. I was just going to give him a chance to answer.

He does mention he had to machine the o2 housing and remove the wastegate collector completely, which I am not sure how he did that.

I don't see any problem with MAP's design, in fact I have consulted a couple of very knowledgeable people on exhaust flow and turbo design, they see no issue, if there is exhaust flow disruption it will be nothing to worry about. Basically there is always exhaust gas hitting one of the runners at all times (that's how the twin scroll works). So if there is exhaust gas in both the runners all the time then why does it matter that the flow combines before it hits the wastegate?

~Zach

 

Well lets see since I have already put together an external wastegate system for a stock turbo before you even started producing parts in the evo market I think I have learned enough on this subject and have talked with others about it. You clearly took an old design from single scroll configurations and just made it fit an evo. The only thing you have done here is just create lag with a leak inside the housing. I have seen the affects of this on other cars and they proved it. Please don't act as a top shop and get offended by somebody who questions your design. Also if you are asking me about my testing I can easily show you graphs. The thing is can you? I don't see one graph on your site or anywhere to back up your design. Your 02 dump works because you are still running an internal wastegate. This is completely different as you have now created a problem pre-wastegate. As far as my background I am a mechanical engineer student and have the brains to be able to pull off a project as easy as this.

 

Please don't try to back up a shop you probably have only gotten parts from and have no idea who they are. I am not here to be a celebrity so if you don't know me I don't see why that should matter. I am present in a lot of conversations throughout the forums. Chances are the "very knowledgeable shops" you have talked to didn't get the full detail and have used a design like this in the past on a single scroll application. Anyone who has slight knowledge on how to set up a twin scroll application can tell you that you will have a problem. Please don't attack me on my background as this is a fight. People are always ready to throw down in front of a keyboard. I clearly stated a fault in your design and only good can come of it if they hope to listen. If I don't have enough background for anyone then please ask Ted B, Drifto(MPFab), Full-race, ETS, AFI, or any other fabricator who has worked on twin scroll applications and they will be able to answer all your questions as they did mine when I asked.

 

The difference between mine and yours is that my hotside is machine to where a tial flange can mate right up against the divided area near the wastegate flapper. By doing this it allowed both sides to be divided pre-wastegate. Your way is open and undivided causing a leak on both sides. This gives a negative affect on spool. I am sure your kit proved to hold the boost it should but I would bet money your spool up is hurt.

 

hmm they're both similar in the fact that they're both divorced...main difference i see is one of the wastegates sits a little farther downstream, i mean by all means correct me if i'm wrong.

 

That is the only difference but that s where the problem is created. I thought the exact thing in the beginning about when I questioned both sides being divorced but I have seen the real life affects and this is why I say this.

 

What is the need for all of the added flow capacity out of the wg for a stock frame turbo? I have not seen a single evo7-9 creep with a proper exhaust setup, even an FP red at 20psi.. After having EWG's on my DSM's I am happy to use an internal as long as I possibly can Almost seems like it's "the thing to do" now but the only gain I can see from a properly set up car is reduced backpressure if you are dumping, and if you already have a good flowing exhaust even that gain will be negligible.

 

you can just weld the wastegate flapper shut.....then buy the MAP downpipe or o2 hosing with the tial 38mm wastegate and it will help you hold boost and stop boost creep....i do not no what MAPS design will do for spool up thou.

and external wastegate is alot better for making power then the little flapper inside the evo ix turbo, red, green, bbk.

the tial external will help out alot.....alot more then just a o2 dump.