909

I'm just wondering if a turbo-back exhaust, cat delete, intake even helps the evo at all. I was with AL at the dyno with 2 other blue by you evos. One of them was Eddie's car with Ultimate Racing Turbo Back, cat delete, intake and he was pushing out 273hp. The other car was Shane from PA with intake (i think) and the BB Triflo exhaust also pushing out only 270+ hp. Then there's my car with the ARC cold air induction box, stock exhaust, stock cat and a boost controller pushing out 280hp. And now Al posts of a bone stock Evo pushing out 274 hp. Do those mods help at all?? or is the evo's stock intake, stock exhaust good enough for the current turbo setup (twinscroll turbo)?? Meaning that an upgrade of those parts will do little or nothing to the evo power wise.

Anyone else thinking along the same lines as me??

mrdecibel

iTrader: (1)

Not thinking along the same lines a you. EVOs vary in HP due to manufacturing processes. There are EVOs that are 20 HP less than others (Stock). One car on the same dyno will achieve higher numbers with the addition of an exhaust. It has been proven at least 100 times with the EVO. SOme gains have been as much as 25HP, while some have been only 10. But they do exist. You cant compare car against car.

Ryanmcd2

Or how about this, It's all in the TUNE of the car.

909

mrdecidel,

as far as i know it, the differences in hp is all about the different fuel maps the ECU is using. As far as the engine, turbo etc, everything is the same. Dynoflash has made the fuel/timing maps equal (tuning the car to the maximum performace) and the results can be duplicated on different cars. Now we that we have furl/timing maps as a constant and Evos making around the same power, I don't see how your arguement holds.

rarson

Personally, I think that "difference among stock cars" crap is just a copout. If they have the same algorithms in the ecu and the same hardware, they will make the SAME POWER, period. There's absolutely nothing that varies significantly enough in the manufacturing process to make me believe some EVOs will magically make more horsepower than other EVOs (cept maybe MAF calibration). Not to say that some don't... Personally, if I had an EVO that was 20 hp down on someone else's and I paid 30 grand for the car, I'd be *****ing at Mitsu.

Furthermore, I think Al knows what he's doing...

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I have seen a few STOCK exhuast cars making 270 - 280 whp with my flash and a boost controller.

I have seen a LOT of various exhausts with the stock boost and no other mods and my flash making in the 260 - 270 range

MOST stock evos make in the 250 - 260 whp range with JUST my flash

I did a BONE stock evo yesterday that made 274 to the wheels with JUST my flash

Conclusion - the boost controoler evos make more than the exhuast evos

My recomendation get BOTH the boost controller AND the EXHUAST and get the 330 whp my customer got last night - OR - add the cams also and get the 348 whp we got tonight on the pruven dyno for a stock turbo client !!!!!!

I dont think you should pick between the exhuast and the boost controll - get both

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I did 4 stock evos tonight on the same dyno - they ranged from a low of 205 whp to a high of 240 - big variance !

Daveyd

iTrader: (1)

Al, whats the difference between your reflash with boost control and a boostcontroller? I thought getting your reflash would eliminate the need for a boost controller?!?

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

I beg to differ. Manufacturing processes alone can account for a whopping change in power; especially castings. Those dynos numbers could be on different days or when the ECU was at different stages of adjustment, etc. Breakin can affect the power output as well. I would be prone to think that two cars off the lot with the same mods will yield different power; the higher mileage making more and the lower making less. It will obviously switch roles as the miles rack up.
FYI, I have heads in for stage 4 upgrade and the machinists noted that the bowls weren't centered properly. Some cylinders, therefore, will flow more or less than others.
NOTE; stage 4 is dual valvesprings, titanium retainers, port, polish, clean up castings, upsized valves, new intake manifold, etc. 9k rpm or higher redline.

Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com

BigBoogieman

I also disagree. Some people claim to have a leaky DV. Some have said hose clamps have been loose. These are going to cause some cars to make a bit more boost than others, which is going to make them run stronger. And I'm sure there are tons of other minor manufacturing variations that could come into play, and add up to 35HP variations like Al saw.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

The reflash merely delays or prevents the stock wastegate solinoid from starting to taper the boost - - without that the boost is still limited to the stock peak of 19 psi - it just stays at that point for a longer time

A boost controller allows you to make MORE boost than the stock peak - and hold it out more

hope that explains it

Skatin' on 20's

While we're on the subject of boost controllers, who makes a good one?

909

Hey Al,

what's the conventional wisdom on a hp gain an intercooler upgrade will give a car?.. I hear somewhere that it was around 30hp. It's true that dynos don't lie, but temperatures change that will account for the 30hp difference. On a cold day, it would seem as though our stock intercoolers will perform as well or even better (with spray) as some really efficient intercoolers giving us the 30hp gain. On a hot day, we lose that benefit and lose that gain. Based on my evolutionm surfing, I think the only variation that I see in evos is the stock boost solenoid. Some people with only a boost gauge upgrade reported that they are peaking as high as 21psi and tapering off to some other high number. As I remember correctly, that day when Shane, Eddie and I were getting dynoflashed, it was a rather cool day, and the weather got even colder when it was my turn, thus we were able to pull that 274-280whp figures. If it were warmer I think our numbers would be in the 250-260s. I think what really makes power is the boost level and the density of the oxygen (the cooler the more oxygen particles per cubic centimeter).

So basically.... I really don't think that the variance of hp between cars can be as high as 30hp given IDENTICAL weather conditions, boost, af-ratio and timing tweaking. Being at Pruven that day and seeing the results of the tune (which was great, don't misunderstand me) where 3 of the cars yielded similar results on similar boost (except mine which was 1psi higher which resulted in a 6hp gain over the others - 7hp gain per psi based on popular beliefs) makes me believe that exhausts, intakes, cat deletes make little or no gain for our cars with the current turbo setup.

mojo

iTrader: (4)

Did the cars with the 3" turboback exaust spool any quicker? Did the dyno graph look virtually the same across the graph gaining and loosing HP at the same rpm? In other words if you overlayed them would the one with the 3" turboback be making more HP at some points?

909

umm...ok I read about the Dynoflashed 330whp tune and did some research on Buschur's stuff. Looks like it does make a difference. It's interesting that Buschur focuses on minimizing the number of bends on an exhaust system (even the intercooler kit saved 5 bends from stock), which will probably reduce turbulence and have the exhaust exit the system at a higher velocity. Also the Buschur exhaust is a one piece compared to many other 2 piece systems. It sounds like a really great unit, but I dont think I'll use it, NYC has very strict laws on loud exhausts.