FP Black?
More fuel...
I honestly don't care if there is an “FP Black” in development or not, but it is fun to drive people crazy.
Just to look at this logically though, it seems pretty reasonable to think they may be working on something bigger.
Turbine size:
The FP Red uses a 67mm turbine that Grocmax refers to as a "34R" turbine in this post.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6195825-post19.html
For comparison sakes, the GT3582R uses a 68mm 84-trim turbine. The same turbine used on the HTA3582R.
Compressor size:
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
It seems pretty logical that FP is going to release something that offers a little bit more power than the RED. If it's possible, they are going to do it. They already have a compressor design that has an inducer that is less than 59mm and can crank out like 70 pounds/min over the RED’s 55-60 lb/min. They also have a turbine that can probably keep up very well with an even higher flowing compressor wheel.
I just see a few issues that might cause a hang up.
1. How much more exhaust can you shove through a 10.5 housing?
2. How large of an exducer can you fit with the compressor cover/backing plate? As the compressor trim goes up, high boost efficiency usually takes a hit. Using a larger trim 76mm wheel probably won’t cut it and they will need to bump up exducer size.
3. In twin scroll configurations, you typically want a turbine to compressor size ratio closer to 1.1 then 1.2. The RED is 1.13, just about ideal. To go up in compressor size without an increase in turbine size may actually reduce the performance of the turbo.
Just bench racing away here, don't mind me.
Just to look at this logically though, it seems pretty reasonable to think they may be working on something bigger.
Turbine size:
The FP Red uses a 67mm turbine that Grocmax refers to as a "34R" turbine in this post.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6195825-post19.html
For comparison sakes, the GT3582R uses a 68mm 84-trim turbine. The same turbine used on the HTA3582R.
Compressor size:
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
It seems pretty logical that FP is going to release something that offers a little bit more power than the RED. If it's possible, they are going to do it. They already have a compressor design that has an inducer that is less than 59mm and can crank out like 70 pounds/min over the RED’s 55-60 lb/min. They also have a turbine that can probably keep up very well with an even higher flowing compressor wheel.
I just see a few issues that might cause a hang up.
1. How much more exhaust can you shove through a 10.5 housing?
2. How large of an exducer can you fit with the compressor cover/backing plate? As the compressor trim goes up, high boost efficiency usually takes a hit. Using a larger trim 76mm wheel probably won’t cut it and they will need to bump up exducer size.
3. In twin scroll configurations, you typically want a turbine to compressor size ratio closer to 1.1 then 1.2. The RED is 1.13, just about ideal. To go up in compressor size without an increase in turbine size may actually reduce the performance of the turbo.
Just bench racing away here, don't mind me.
Compressor size:
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
As for the hotside restriction, it's only a matter of time before someone casts a larger bolt-on housing, FP has already done the compressor housing and the FP30 DSM bolt-on turbine housings, I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with an HTA35R bolt-on using the 80mm comp. housing and a larger proprietary turbine housing.
If I got the size off and the HTA3582R is a59mm wheel, sorry, I was just going from memory. Either way, I was definitely getting at a bolt on HTA3582R as my hypothesis.
Hey, if it is a thin wall investment cast housing that maintains the twin scroll setup and allows an external gate while looking as pretty as the FP30 housing, I'd...
I'd...
I'd sale a kidney for it.
Hey, if it is a thin wall investment cast housing that maintains the twin scroll setup and allows an external gate while looking as pretty as the FP30 housing, I'd...
I'd...
I'd sale a kidney for it.
It would be nice to see a bolt on turbo that could trap over 150 .. But as far as i know the highest the red has trap is around 142. I mean for a bolt on turbo that is awsome but a car with a hta 86 is traping 157 at 9.05 huge difference.
its possible!...but i think now your just asking for a little bit too much
I honestly don't care if there is an “FP Black” in development or not, but it is fun to drive people crazy.
Just to look at this logically though, it seems pretty reasonable to think they may be working on something bigger.
Turbine size:
The FP Red uses a 67mm turbine that Grocmax refers to as a "34R" turbine in this post.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6195825-post19.html
For comparison sakes, the GT3582R uses a 68mm 84-trim turbine. The same turbine used on the HTA3582R.
Compressor size:
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
It seems pretty logical that FP is going to release something that offers a little bit more power than the RED. If it's possible, they are going to do it. They already have a compressor design that has an inducer that is less than 59mm and can crank out like 70 pounds/min over the RED’s 55-60 lb/min. They also have a turbine that can probably keep up very well with an even higher flowing compressor wheel.
I just see a few issues that might cause a hang up.
1. How much more exhaust can you shove through a 10.5 housing?
2. How large of an exducer can you fit with the compressor cover/backing plate? As the compressor trim goes up, high boost efficiency usually takes a hit. Using a larger trim 76mm wheel probably won’t cut it and they will need to bump up exducer size.
3. In twin scroll configurations, you typically want a turbine to compressor size ratio closer to 1.1 then 1.2. The RED is 1.13, just about ideal. To go up in compressor size without an increase in turbine size may actually reduce the performance of the turbo.
Just bench racing away here, don't mind me.
Just to look at this logically though, it seems pretty reasonable to think they may be working on something bigger.
Turbine size:
The FP Red uses a 67mm turbine that Grocmax refers to as a "34R" turbine in this post.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6195825-post19.html
For comparison sakes, the GT3582R uses a 68mm 84-trim turbine. The same turbine used on the HTA3582R.
Compressor size:
Grocmax has said the 80mm RED compressor cover is able to fit a 59mm inducer.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6953923-post133.html
The HTA3582R happens to have a 58mm inducer. I have no idea what size the RED is, but I'm thinking it's at least a couple mm smaller than 59mm.
It seems pretty logical that FP is going to release something that offers a little bit more power than the RED. If it's possible, they are going to do it. They already have a compressor design that has an inducer that is less than 59mm and can crank out like 70 pounds/min over the RED’s 55-60 lb/min. They also have a turbine that can probably keep up very well with an even higher flowing compressor wheel.
I just see a few issues that might cause a hang up.
1. How much more exhaust can you shove through a 10.5 housing?
2. How large of an exducer can you fit with the compressor cover/backing plate? As the compressor trim goes up, high boost efficiency usually takes a hit. Using a larger trim 76mm wheel probably won’t cut it and they will need to bump up exducer size.
3. In twin scroll configurations, you typically want a turbine to compressor size ratio closer to 1.1 then 1.2. The RED is 1.13, just about ideal. To go up in compressor size without an increase in turbine size may actually reduce the performance of the turbo.
Just bench racing away here, don't mind me.
FP loves making crazy turbos and this 'black' would definitely fit into that category. Not sure how much more room there is in the turbine housing, but I'm sure they'll be able to squeeze a little bigger than the reds turbine. If not, then a slightly larger comp wheel will move the torque curve to the right and voila, more power. It's too bad FP is so hush hush about stuff, but then again with wheels this big on a stock (or near stock) center-section will be tough; bigger wheels means more torsional load on the shaft and bearings, but the recipe is certainly all there for them to make it. Just gotta get the wheels in production, machine the housings, and beat the living **** out of it for a while we all wait to make sure the whole combo will work.
Last edited by scheides; Aug 31, 2009 at 08:41 PM.
Yup, that's all I'm saying. All the clues are out there, just a matter of time before they actually exist. HTA greens first, I guess.
It takes a couple months to get a turbo they already have developed and for sale. You guys are looking forward to buying a turbo that don't even exist yet. I wonder how long till you guys get that in the mail. People in this thread saying they are taking there current turbos off for this non-existent black already?? Ill say it yet AGAIN, what happened to doing research and building your car in a specific manner suited to your needs. Or is the evo scene all about having the "new thing" no matter what the results. I dont know why people who DD there evos like such big turbos. The power is pretty much unusable on the street. By the time you hit boost you gotta stop at a light again. Low end spool is was more usable for the street.
precisely why I'm going with the BBK. I can get mine in 2 days, to all out there waiting for the black, don't hold your breath. If it is even being tested it will be another 3-6 months before they are available and then you have to deal with FP's wait time on top of that. Good luck. I don't understand how anyone can say I got to have that when there is no specs, numbers or confirmation on this turbo yet.
It takes a couple months to get a turbo they already have developed and for sale. You guys are looking forward to buying a turbo that don't even exist yet. I wonder how long till you guys get that in the mail. People in this thread saying they are taking there current turbos off for this non-existent black already?? Ill say it yet AGAIN, what happened to doing research and building your car in a specific manner suited to your needs. Or is the evo scene all about having the "new thing" no matter what the results. I dont know why people who DD there evos like such big turbos. The power is pretty much unusable on the street. By the time you hit boost you gotta stop at a light again. Low end spool is was more usable for the street.
Since when was the Red/Black a "Big turbo"? Last time I checked the Tq curve on the Red makes it the best choice for the Daily Driven/Weekend Race Car. Pretty sure I already know enough specs of FP's new unit to make an educated decision. You don't so why open your mouth and insert your foot saying things like "It doesn't exist" etc?