2010 Borg Warner Airwerks Turbo catalog
Dec 18, 2009, 09:48 PM
#77
here is a side-by-side pic of the 83-75 turbine wheel (heat cycled shaft) vs the more advanced aero 88-75 turbine wheel (with the shiny shaft) this is my favorite turbo atm
the red circles highlight the subtle difference in blade aero, and you can see the flat blade of the 83-75 vs the 88-75 leading edge airfoil and reall smooth blade contour
i'd be interested to see what the 88-75 does on the 1.00 for gas and 1.10 a/r for ethanol - particularly with you coming from a precision billet 62 and E85 already, that would be a great comparison. IMHO this particular Airwerks 88-75 turbo has the most refined wheel aero (both turbine and compressor) & best housing design of any externally wastegated turbo im aware of ever being released to the aftermarket from any manufacturers
the S300SX and S400SX are genuine BorgWarner Airwerks turbochargers - thats what Full-Race uses and stands behind. The bullseye S366 turbos are bullsye's own version of the BW S300SX's but instead use cut down turbine wheels from 79.8mm to 76mm in order to fit their bullseye T3 housings (since most of their customers buy T3 turbos). IMO these turbos should be run as T4s and the 79.8mm turbines should not be changed! its an incredible wheel design, and perfect match to the 66.7mm/91mm compressor. ill post some closeup pics of this in the next couple of days. What weve seen it do with the right setup is really impressive, going to get some evo results soon.
to clarify the nomenclature:
S300SX = T4 Twinscroll or T4 Singlescroll .88 a/r example: 40R/twinscroll 35R/twinscroll 37R/T04Z
S400SX = T4 Twinscroll OR T6 Twinscroll (like how the 42R and 45R are also available in T6 divided)
please measure the turbine wheel OD and take a pic of it if you can, so the picture can explain the difference
the red circles highlight the subtle difference in blade aero, and you can see the flat blade of the 83-75 vs the 88-75 leading edge airfoil and reall smooth blade contour
Full-Race Geoff, How much power is that 88-75 good for on kill mode? I have talked to you before when I built my last setup about the 91-79 but it was on a long long back order. I ended up with a pte 6262. That turbo is great, good spool, good power. I am redoing my setup over winter and just want to try something new I guess. Which turbo would you recomend for a 2.0 evo, e85 car, 750-800hp (without running like 50psi 
) max revs 9k
) max revs 9kto clarify the nomenclature:
S300SX = T4 Twinscroll or T4 Singlescroll .88 a/r example: 40R/twinscroll 35R/twinscroll 37R/T04Z
S400SX = T4 Twinscroll OR T6 Twinscroll (like how the 42R and 45R are also available in T6 divided)
please measure the turbine wheel OD and take a pic of it if you can, so the picture can explain the difference
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Dec 18, 2009 at 10:00 PM.
Dec 20, 2009, 10:08 PM
#80
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My buddy's S360 on his Srt-4
After less than a month he discovered this
He is now in the market of turbo. He is looking on getting S362.
Any suggestion Geof? His goal is low 10's at least.
After less than a month he discovered this
Any suggestion Geof? His goal is low 10's at least.
Dec 21, 2009, 07:48 AM
#81
my recommendation is for your friend to use a genuine BorgWarner / Airwerks T4 turbocharger -- it will offer much better performance and will not come apart like this bullseye did. If he wants to go Deep 10's the singlescroll 88/75 OR singlescroll 91/79 could both work well.
FYI they started with an S200 center section/compressor housing (aka s256) threw on a 60mm/83mm compressor wheel and bored the housing to suit. The problem with this is that the turbine wheel is out of its efficiency range pushing this compressor - typical mismatch... if your friend ran a t3-> t4 adaptor (either singlescroll or twinscroll, depending on the manifold obviously) performance will increase considerably and the turbo will be stronger/more reliable
FYI they started with an S200 center section/compressor housing (aka s256) threw on a 60mm/83mm compressor wheel and bored the housing to suit. The problem with this is that the turbine wheel is out of its efficiency range pushing this compressor - typical mismatch... if your friend ran a t3-> t4 adaptor (either singlescroll or twinscroll, depending on the manifold obviously) performance will increase considerably and the turbo will be stronger/more reliable
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Dec 21, 2009 at 07:55 PM.
Dec 21, 2009, 09:25 AM
#82
Geoff, do any of the smaller turbos have the more advanced aero on the compressor and turbine sides?
I'd prefer something in the 50-60 lb/min range to make a strong power band with less concern about peak numbers. If I could have say 3500-7500 RPM over 350 ft-lbs, I'd be pretty happy.
I'd prefer something in the 50-60 lb/min range to make a strong power band with less concern about peak numbers. If I could have say 3500-7500 RPM over 350 ft-lbs, I'd be pretty happy.
Dec 21, 2009, 10:56 AM
#83
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That doesn't look like a Bullseye turbo, it's not their .70 T3 hotside for sure. Also, you say it's a 360 but there is no 360 extended tip, and that turbo definitely has the extended tip wheel. Since it's on an SRT, I'd guess it's some AGP concoction, maybe using a Garrett .63 or .82 turbine housing. We've had zero issues with BW turbos from BEP, with several S36x making well over 600whp.
Dec 21, 2009, 11:16 AM
#84
Geoff, do any of the smaller turbos have the more advanced aero on the compressor and turbine sides? I'd prefer something in the 50-60 lb/min range to make a strong power band with less concern about peak numbers. If I could have say 3500-7500 RPM over 350 ft-lbs, I'd be pretty happy.
Dec 21, 2009, 11:42 AM
#86
Do you happen to have any comparisions between the S200 and the GT3071R or GT3076R.
The price of the S200 is nice, but I've been at a toss between a dual wastegated, thick walled, twinscroll setup or just sacrificing the transient response benefits of a twin scroll and reliability of thicker wall tubing in favor of a much lighter GT30 with a tial housing and single gate with a thin wall manifold.
weight vs. power...
Weight pays off every where, power pays off only when you are on the throttle.
The price of the S200 is nice, but I've been at a toss between a dual wastegated, thick walled, twinscroll setup or just sacrificing the transient response benefits of a twin scroll and reliability of thicker wall tubing in favor of a much lighter GT30 with a tial housing and single gate with a thin wall manifold.
weight vs. power...
Weight pays off every where, power pays off only when you are on the throttle.
Dec 21, 2009, 01:58 PM
#87
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That doesn't look like a Bullseye turbo, it's not their .70 T3 hotside for sure. Also, you say it's a 360 but there is no 360 extended tip, and that turbo definitely has the extended tip wheel. Since it's on an SRT, I'd guess it's some AGP concoction, maybe using a Garrett .63 or .82 turbine housing. We've had zero issues with BW turbos from BEP, with several S36x making well over 600whp.
Dec 21, 2009, 07:53 PM
#88
Do you happen to have any comparisions between the S200 and the GT3071R or GT3076R.
The price of the S200 is nice, but I've been at a toss between a dual wastegated, thick walled, twinscroll setup or just sacrificing the transient response benefits of a twin scroll and reliability of thicker wall tubing in favor of a much lighter GT30 with a tial housing and single gate with a thin wall manifold.
weight vs. power...
Weight pays off every where, power pays off only when you are on the throttle.
The price of the S200 is nice, but I've been at a toss between a dual wastegated, thick walled, twinscroll setup or just sacrificing the transient response benefits of a twin scroll and reliability of thicker wall tubing in favor of a much lighter GT30 with a tial housing and single gate with a thin wall manifold.
weight vs. power...
Weight pays off every where, power pays off only when you are on the throttle.
S200 price is not bad, if you decided to try a twinscroll T3 out id be really interested to see the result.
ive been testing twith the gt30 vband tial setup a little bit lately, and have learned a lot - they definitely dont act the same as when its in a T3 garrett hsg! id rather not get into that in this thread however. if you decide to go that route i can help lend a hand, but for an evo id take twinscroll over the vband any day.
btw the difference is about 6 lbs and the weight pays off the first time your thin header cracks (and the thin ones always do)
Dec 21, 2009, 08:06 PM
#90
6 pounds for the manifold
A couple pounds for the exhaust housing (those twin scroll housings are heavy)
A couple pounds for the second wastegate
It all adds up and it all goes against my goal of having a very light evo.
It's long term anyway. Gotta save up my pennies.
Just wondering how they compared.
A couple pounds for the exhaust housing (those twin scroll housings are heavy)
A couple pounds for the second wastegate
It all adds up and it all goes against my goal of having a very light evo.
It's long term anyway. Gotta save up my pennies.
Just wondering how they compared.