AWESOME information and results, take a read.
Oct 20, 2009, 12:34 PM
#1
AWESOME information and results, take a read.
Ok, so we have a customer, Dan, who sent his car here for a build. Not a small build but a major build. The car was pretty much entirely Buschur Racing parts.
BR Stage 3 shortblock
BR Stage 3 head
BR double pumper
PTE1200 cc injectors
BR upper i/c pipe with 1G BOV
BR turbo kit with HTA86 and .82 turbine housing
BR Race FMIC
BF272 cams
Manual boost controller
STOCK ECU
PUMP GAS only
The car was to be left on stock ECU for emission testing that is coming up. When the tuning was finished the power ended up at 454 whp and 399 ft lbs of torque. I ran the car up to 32 psi of boost to make this power. Not stellar but the car ran good and smooth and it's all I could get out of it.
Dan, the customer, just wasn't happy. Asked what we could do to make more. We dedided on installling an AEM EMS, he got a deal on a used one and sent it in. The car was put back on the dyno and I was able to gain 28 whp and run the car at 29.84 psi instead of the 32 I had to run previously. The switch to the AEM gained power but the gains were over 6500 rpm. Not nearly as much power as I had hoped for, but again, all the car would make.
Now, let me add some details to this. First off, I do not sell parts that someone doesn't need and my guys are directed to do the same thing. We will not just tell you something to take your money, it's not how I want treated and we don't do it to someone else. This is at times, like this car will prove, a fault. We advise what should be done but won't push a point to sound like some douche bag salesman and after this car, maybe we should push a little harder. Dan wanted to keep the car on the stock ECU for emission testing. When we decided to switch to the AEM he requested to make it a simple plug in ordeal. This meant when he wants to switch back to the stock ECU for testing he can simply plug his stock sensors back in and unplug the AEM sensors. So some extra wiring was done and we kept the stock MAF in place, unplugged, and the 3" BR MAF inlet pipe along with some big foam Perrin filter in place.
So, Dan tells me he doesn't want to bother me and is baffled why the power is still "low". Now keep in mind, 478 whp on pump gas on our dyno is still a lot of power. I listen to him, he's extremely easy to deal with and polite. He asks if the 1G BOV could be leaking. I tell him I doubt it, it's crushed and the boost is relatively flat. He asks about the big foam air filter, I told him it looked fine to me. He asked about the stock ignition.............BINGO!! OK, maybe we are losing some power to the ignition I told him, although the car is running perfectly clean at 30+ psi. I told him we'd swap the BOV which could be leaking and I'd dyno that then put the BR COP on the car and see if it gained.
So, the car comes in today and I walk past the car, glance under the hood and didn't like what I see. I didn't really realize the stock MAF was in still with this big foam filter. So I ask Trent to make a quick 4" inlet pipe and use one of the 4" Green filters on it. I was trying my best to NOT make the bill any larger than it was although not once has Dan ever questioned or mentioned it, very fair guy.
They weld the new Tial BOV on the BR upper i/c pipe, put the 4" intake and filter on and put the car on the dyno. That's when it started, the betting. Bets were being placed to how much the car was going to gain. The highest number was Trent's who guessed 50 whp. He asked me what I thought and I said I had no idea.
The first pull told the tale instantly. The AFR's over about 5500 rpm started going lean and never stopped getting leaner all the way to 8,000 rpm. I knew air flow had been substantially increased and looking at the dyno screen I was shocked!!
I dialed the AFR's back in, left them at about 11.7:1, I had to turn the boost DOWN 1.5 turns on the controller to get it to come down to 29 psi again.
End result, this bad boy gained 55 whp and 11 ft lbs of torque from a freaking BOV and air filter/maf pipe change!! Now that is just flat out amazing.
Here I was content with the car and not wanting to push every part we make on the customer and just do what he asked us to do. Luckily for me, Dan was just not happy and asked ME to help figure it out and get more.
I'd have never guessed, ever, that those two parts would net gains of this much.
You have to understand that I was pushing the car for all it had to get the 478 whp. After those two changes I backed it down and STILL gained 55 whp. You can see by the below dyno graph the gains from getting some air into the engine both through the filter and from the boost not leaking out the BOV.
Freaking incredible.
Here's the dyno sheet of the stock ECU, then AEM and last BOV/Filter change.
Dan, THANK YOU for pushing me a little to improve the car, what I learned today has lit a fire under my butt!! Thank you for bringing the car, thank you for not being satisified. You've been a pleasure to deal with.
BR Stage 3 shortblock
BR Stage 3 head
BR double pumper
PTE1200 cc injectors
BR upper i/c pipe with 1G BOV
BR turbo kit with HTA86 and .82 turbine housing
BR Race FMIC
BF272 cams
Manual boost controller
STOCK ECU
PUMP GAS only
The car was to be left on stock ECU for emission testing that is coming up. When the tuning was finished the power ended up at 454 whp and 399 ft lbs of torque. I ran the car up to 32 psi of boost to make this power. Not stellar but the car ran good and smooth and it's all I could get out of it.
Dan, the customer, just wasn't happy. Asked what we could do to make more. We dedided on installling an AEM EMS, he got a deal on a used one and sent it in. The car was put back on the dyno and I was able to gain 28 whp and run the car at 29.84 psi instead of the 32 I had to run previously. The switch to the AEM gained power but the gains were over 6500 rpm. Not nearly as much power as I had hoped for, but again, all the car would make.
Now, let me add some details to this. First off, I do not sell parts that someone doesn't need and my guys are directed to do the same thing. We will not just tell you something to take your money, it's not how I want treated and we don't do it to someone else. This is at times, like this car will prove, a fault. We advise what should be done but won't push a point to sound like some douche bag salesman and after this car, maybe we should push a little harder. Dan wanted to keep the car on the stock ECU for emission testing. When we decided to switch to the AEM he requested to make it a simple plug in ordeal. This meant when he wants to switch back to the stock ECU for testing he can simply plug his stock sensors back in and unplug the AEM sensors. So some extra wiring was done and we kept the stock MAF in place, unplugged, and the 3" BR MAF inlet pipe along with some big foam Perrin filter in place.
So, Dan tells me he doesn't want to bother me and is baffled why the power is still "low". Now keep in mind, 478 whp on pump gas on our dyno is still a lot of power. I listen to him, he's extremely easy to deal with and polite. He asks if the 1G BOV could be leaking. I tell him I doubt it, it's crushed and the boost is relatively flat. He asks about the big foam air filter, I told him it looked fine to me. He asked about the stock ignition.............BINGO!! OK, maybe we are losing some power to the ignition I told him, although the car is running perfectly clean at 30+ psi. I told him we'd swap the BOV which could be leaking and I'd dyno that then put the BR COP on the car and see if it gained.
So, the car comes in today and I walk past the car, glance under the hood and didn't like what I see. I didn't really realize the stock MAF was in still with this big foam filter. So I ask Trent to make a quick 4" inlet pipe and use one of the 4" Green filters on it. I was trying my best to NOT make the bill any larger than it was although not once has Dan ever questioned or mentioned it, very fair guy.
They weld the new Tial BOV on the BR upper i/c pipe, put the 4" intake and filter on and put the car on the dyno. That's when it started, the betting. Bets were being placed to how much the car was going to gain. The highest number was Trent's who guessed 50 whp. He asked me what I thought and I said I had no idea.
The first pull told the tale instantly. The AFR's over about 5500 rpm started going lean and never stopped getting leaner all the way to 8,000 rpm. I knew air flow had been substantially increased and looking at the dyno screen I was shocked!!
I dialed the AFR's back in, left them at about 11.7:1, I had to turn the boost DOWN 1.5 turns on the controller to get it to come down to 29 psi again.
End result, this bad boy gained 55 whp and 11 ft lbs of torque from a freaking BOV and air filter/maf pipe change!! Now that is just flat out amazing.
Here I was content with the car and not wanting to push every part we make on the customer and just do what he asked us to do. Luckily for me, Dan was just not happy and asked ME to help figure it out and get more.
I'd have never guessed, ever, that those two parts would net gains of this much.
You have to understand that I was pushing the car for all it had to get the 478 whp. After those two changes I backed it down and STILL gained 55 whp. You can see by the below dyno graph the gains from getting some air into the engine both through the filter and from the boost not leaking out the BOV.
Freaking incredible.
Here's the dyno sheet of the stock ECU, then AEM and last BOV/Filter change.
Dan, THANK YOU for pushing me a little to improve the car, what I learned today has lit a fire under my butt!! Thank you for bringing the car, thank you for not being satisified. You've been a pleasure to deal with.
Oct 20, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Dave,
Is this dan guy a nice guy?? lol
By the way, thanks to you all at BR. You, Dan, and Nick putting up with me. lol
Is this dan guy a nice guy?? lol
By the way, thanks to you all at BR. You, Dan, and Nick putting up with me. lol
Last edited by red03evo; Oct 20, 2009 at 01:01 PM.
Oct 20, 2009, 12:57 PM
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That's crazy indeed!
It's like I knew it! LOL!
When I installed my FS635 I didn't even bother with the 3" intake pipe and stock bov. I got a tial bov, the massive full 4" dejon turbo pipe and the larger K+N filter I could fit between the pipe and the acd tank! So happy that I made That change because David just proved that it works!!!
Also I think Dynoflash had made a similar test with the intake pipe and AMS also with significant gains!
It's like I knew it! LOL!
When I installed my FS635 I didn't even bother with the 3" intake pipe and stock bov. I got a tial bov, the massive full 4" dejon turbo pipe and the larger K+N filter I could fit between the pipe and the acd tank! So happy that I made That change because David just proved that it works!!!
Also I think Dynoflash had made a similar test with the intake pipe and AMS also with significant gains!
Pat yourself on the back!
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Oct 20, 2009, 01:42 PM
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Gotta be the BOV mostly imo. Im surprised it wasnt on the to do list by the customer? There has gotta be a better Recirc BOV that BR can offer? Maybe the Tial Q since hes already flanged
Oct 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
#13
Yeah we did a similar test in June (results somewhere in the ECUflash forum). 3" true cold air (went into the fender where the sprayer res should be) was 482 @ 26 and on the edge on timing. Pulled it off, car made 495 with absolutely no changes to the tune. Next day spent a little more time on the car and was able to add 2 degrees in that the night before it would not take. Got the power up to 510.
