FP Red with 9.8T exhaust housing for extra response?
What does the quickest and fastest BBK car run? I think a Red is already a superior product to the BBK personally. For the same price you can get a turbo with better turbine wheel, bearing section for higher loads, ported compressor cover, billet compressor wheel and the ability to go into the 9's on a race setup vs a compressor upgrade and turbine upgrade if you get a full. BBK is stock center section and housings.
Oh well!
Oh well!
What does the quickest and fastest BBK car run? I think a Red is already a superior product to the BBK personally. For the same price you can get a turbo with better turbine wheel, bearing section for higher loads, ported compressor cover, billet compressor wheel and the ability to go into the 9's on a race setup vs a compressor upgrade and turbine upgrade if you get a full. BBK is stock center section and housings.
Oh well!
Oh well!
A very few handful of people will actually ever run 9's. There's a trade off between lag and top end. Why would you want to run a laggier turbo so that you are capable of running 9's later in a race setup?
By your measure we'd all be better off running 45R's.
Also, the red has a different compressor housing because of its tendency to surge. They are there to fix a problem. BBK's do not surge. I have no idea about the history of the red, but I am guessing they are either not stock Mitsubishi cores, or have been upgraded because of their higher failure rate. The red is still a journal bearing.
I have a FP Red on my evo6 setup.
I'm looking for extra response.
I've got a 2.3 stroker kit build in the works, all my parts are coming from the states. That'll be happening early next year.
My question is -
Will putting a 9.8T exhaust housing onto a FP Red increase response by alot?
I'm only looking to make 450whp, so i'm not bothered if i lose some top end for the sake of picking up response.
Any ideas?
Please be constructive.
Cheers, Mike
I'm looking for extra response.
I've got a 2.3 stroker kit build in the works, all my parts are coming from the states. That'll be happening early next year.
My question is -
Will putting a 9.8T exhaust housing onto a FP Red increase response by alot?
I'm only looking to make 450whp, so i'm not bothered if i lose some top end for the sake of picking up response.
Any ideas?
Please be constructive.
Cheers, Mike
I personally think you will have issues with a 2.3L and a red on a small hot side like the 9.8. maybe to much backpressure, remember big turbos like to breath, they just want to spit air out they dont behave with to muh back pressure specially with the size of the compressor wheel the red caries in general turbocharged vehicles like to breath its not like an N/A vehicle where you need a balance of exhaust size.
Last edited by apagan01; Dec 16, 2009 at 07:42 AM.
The red is responsive enough on the 10.5 hot side with a 2.0, claims are spool at around 3400, so with that being said once you did the 2.3L iam sure spool will be even quicker, it dont think you need the 9.8 back side i think i would hurt you more than help you, but again a real test would prove me right or wrong.
I personally think you will have issues with a 2.3L and a red on a small hot side like the 9.8. maybe to much backpressure, remember big turbos like to breath, they just want to spit air out they dont behave with to muh back pressure specially with the size of the compressor wheel the red caries in general turbocharged vehicles like to breath its not like an N/A vehicle where you need a balance of exhaust size.
I personally think you will have issues with a 2.3L and a red on a small hot side like the 9.8. maybe to much backpressure, remember big turbos like to breath, they just want to spit air out they dont behave with to muh back pressure specially with the size of the compressor wheel the red caries in general turbocharged vehicles like to breath its not like an N/A vehicle where you need a balance of exhaust size.
hopefully with the stroker, it'll bring the cams into efficiency too. i should have gone for the 264/260 combo.
Not soley but it is a significant yardstick. Also since our cars with a stock rev limit will never fall out of boost on a shift and instant boost is a gear change away. I like how bbk owners deflect the lack of performance in the 1/4 and act as if the Red is a lagmonster like a 45r when it is closer in spool to a stocker than even a 35r and splits the power difference quite nicely. As far as the bearings, they are better to withstand the loads a red can acheive. If it was less capable a stock bearing section would be fine at 25psi. It is not fine at 40psi. Also the compressor cover stock is designed for a stock 16g any huge compressor in a stock housing will surge. At least FP offers more and mods the turbo to hold up under increased performance.
An objective measure of a turbo's performance is not solely what its capable of running in the quarter.
A very few handful of people will actually ever run 9's. There's a trade off between lag and top end. Why would you want to run a laggier turbo so that you are capable of running 9's later in a race setup?
By your measure we'd all be better off running 45R's.
Also, the red has a different compressor housing because of its tendency to surge. They are there to fix a problem. BBK's do not surge. I have no idea about the history of the red, but I am guessing they are either not stock Mitsubishi cores, or have been upgraded because of their higher failure rate. The red is still a journal bearing.
A very few handful of people will actually ever run 9's. There's a trade off between lag and top end. Why would you want to run a laggier turbo so that you are capable of running 9's later in a race setup?
By your measure we'd all be better off running 45R's.
Also, the red has a different compressor housing because of its tendency to surge. They are there to fix a problem. BBK's do not surge. I have no idea about the history of the red, but I am guessing they are either not stock Mitsubishi cores, or have been upgraded because of their higher failure rate. The red is still a journal bearing.
Not soley but it is a significant yardstick. Also since our cars with a stock rev limit will never fall out of boost on a shift and instant boost is a gear change away. I like how bbk owners deflect the lack of performance in the 1/4 and act as if the Red is a lagmonster like a 45r when it is closer in spool to a stocker than even a 35r and splits the power difference quite nicely. As far as the bearings, they are better to withstand the loads a red can acheive. If it was less capable a stock bearing section would be fine at 25psi. It is not fine at 40psi. Also the compressor cover stock is designed for a stock 16g any huge compressor in a stock housing will surge. At least FP offers more and mods the turbo to hold up under increased performance.
How fast do you really need to go? How fast is your car?
Well my old Talon made 603whp in 2005 and will prob crack in the low 700's when I get it on the dyno this winter. My evo is so far stock turbo but that is about to change this winter as my turbo kit is all sitting waiting for install. I went bigger than a red an got an sc61 with tubular manifold and external wg. I would get an fp black if I was going to get any Bolt on turbo but the internal gate and lack of stable boost till redline doesn't fit my criteria. I also am saving $ while prepping for the eventual 35r variant to go on. However I already have a friend I am installing an FP Black on a BR 2.3 with stg3 head and kelford 272's so if I don't like my powerband in comparison I will get a black or red.
I haven't heard the word decimate since Jesse from the fast and the furious talking about overnight parts from Japan.
My guess is the smaller hotside would skyrocket the PR between the compressor/turbine wheels and add a ton of heat. I'd put all my marbles in that the BBK will still crush the red on spool even with the 9cm hotside.
My guess is the smaller hotside would skyrocket the PR between the compressor/turbine wheels and add a ton of heat. I'd put all my marbles in that the BBK will still crush the red on spool even with the 9cm hotside.
My question for the OP is what fuel are you using to achieve this 450whp... and is that DJ numbers or MD numbers?
It will be on a dynopac dyno (hub dyno), where my car made 240kwatw before running out of injector flow. It did make 260kw, but the AFR went to 0.85 lambda (instead of holding at 0.80), so we put it back to 240kwatw.
i'm thinking these dyno's read lower than the american dynos.
I'm hoping for at least 300kwatw, which i dont think will be a problem. We'll be tuning up to 30psi, or until the engine doesn't like it (detonation etc).
if a 1.5psi difference went from 240kwatw to 260kwatw, then 300 will be easy as.
I'm excited to see what 30psi will make. Especially with 2.3 stroker and 9:1 CR etc.
Cheers, Mike
So we're all using different yard sticks. 420whp should trap you 120mph in the quarter mile... 450 should get you near 123mph.... granted your Mirage is probably lighter... I'll guess 2900 pounds?
You made 322whp and trapped 117mph. I'd say your dyno's read about 30-50 hp lower than a Dynojet Dyno (basically...American Horsepower)
So i can assume around 123-124 @ 420whp and 126-127 @ 450whp
Your dyno would probably read 420whp and you'd trap 126-127. You'll need the FP Red to do that.
If you're concerned about response still I would consider running the 18psi actuator and running your EBC NC... I had very good response on the stock 2.0LMIVEC engine.
Are you running Tephra v7 in the stock ecu by chance?
You made 322whp and trapped 117mph. I'd say your dyno's read about 30-50 hp lower than a Dynojet Dyno (basically...American Horsepower)
So i can assume around 123-124 @ 420whp and 126-127 @ 450whp
Your dyno would probably read 420whp and you'd trap 126-127. You'll need the FP Red to do that.
If you're concerned about response still I would consider running the 18psi actuator and running your EBC NC... I had very good response on the stock 2.0LMIVEC engine.
Are you running Tephra v7 in the stock ecu by chance?
So we're all using different yard sticks. 420whp should trap you 120mph in the quarter mile... 450 should get you near 123mph.... granted your Mirage is probably lighter... I'll guess 2900 pounds?
You made 322whp and trapped 117mph. I'd say your dyno's read about 30-50 hp lower than a Dynojet Dyno (basically...American Horsepower)
So i can assume around 123-124 @ 420whp and 126-127 @ 450whp
Your dyno would probably read 420whp and you'd trap 126-127. You'll need the FP Red to do that.
If you're concerned about response still I would consider running the 18psi actuator and running your EBC NC... I had very good response on the stock 2.0LMIVEC engine.
Are you running Tephra v7 in the stock ecu by chance?
You made 322whp and trapped 117mph. I'd say your dyno's read about 30-50 hp lower than a Dynojet Dyno (basically...American Horsepower)
So i can assume around 123-124 @ 420whp and 126-127 @ 450whp
Your dyno would probably read 420whp and you'd trap 126-127. You'll need the FP Red to do that.
If you're concerned about response still I would consider running the 18psi actuator and running your EBC NC... I had very good response on the stock 2.0LMIVEC engine.
Are you running Tephra v7 in the stock ecu by chance?
I'm running an evo6 ecu with normal ecuflash editing, no special roms/patches.
i'm using HKS EVC (boost control) at the mo, but i'm going to a Link Extreme G4 ecu, (http://www.linkecu.com/products/engi...ecus/g4-xtreme)
it can do anything!! (same/similar to ViPec v88)
the 2.3 will be built in feb/march. i was looking into getting a Mivec head to put on, but then i'll have to rebuy my valve springs and cams. The Mivec head itself would be costly, let alone shipping/customs/duty and the porting and cams/springs. I'm thinking i'll get my normal evo6 head done when i do the rebuild.
My tuner/mate (http://www.driftcarl.com/2009/Welcome.html) will be helping me out with alot of the work (i.e. building the engine, tuning, wiring etc).
check out my project/build if you like
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ed-mirage.html
i need to update alot of the pics!!
Cheers, Mike