VIDEO: Why the FP Red needs the 80mm cover!
Dec 24, 2009, 07:53 PM
#1
VIDEO: Why the FP Red needs the 80mm cover!
I've owned the 64mm FP Red and the 80mm FP Red.
Some people ask why the 80mm Red is better? 1 simple reason it doesn't surge like the 64mm housing does. The anti-surge housing makes a LOT more "turbo noise" on spool up due to the air being vented in the anti-surge housing, but it doesn't cause surging. I've got two video's for you guys
64mm Surging Example 1
64mm Surging Example 2
Big thanks to FastFreddie for hosting the video! Big thanks to the guys at Drift Office in Auburn Washington.
Just to clarify... this is meant to be an informative post and not a vendor bashing post. I think it's valuable for Evom members looking at buying turbo's to see what the 80mm Advanced Port does for the stock framed turbochargers. FP
Some people ask why the 80mm Red is better? 1 simple reason it doesn't surge like the 64mm housing does. The anti-surge housing makes a LOT more "turbo noise" on spool up due to the air being vented in the anti-surge housing, but it doesn't cause surging. I've got two video's for you guys
64mm Surging Example 1
64mm Surging Example 2
Big thanks to FastFreddie for hosting the video! Big thanks to the guys at Drift Office in Auburn Washington.
Just to clarify... this is meant to be an informative post and not a vendor bashing post. I think it's valuable for Evom members looking at buying turbo's to see what the 80mm Advanced Port does for the stock framed turbochargers. FP
Jan 14, 2010, 06:48 AM
#4
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My 64mm didnt surge. My BOV fluttered with the Red when boost came on for a split second. You could be getting a surge with it in 4th gear on the dyno at low rpm tip in.
Jan 15, 2010, 07:49 AM
#6
The increase from 64mm to 80mm gives the compressor wheel much more of an inlet to pull in fresh metered air. Thanks for the videos.
<3 my 80mm Red. Love the spoolup sound the turbo makes right before the transition from vacuum to boost. Like a Semi.
<3 my 80mm Red. Love the spoolup sound the turbo makes right before the transition from vacuum to boost. Like a Semi.
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Jan 15, 2010, 08:53 AM
#8
The 64mm will make more power. 80mm port may sound like it will make more power but it is just the opposite. The surge port is effectively a boost leak right at the inlet. at low airflow the air gets recirculated right at mouth of turbo. The noise you here is air circulating that would normally be available to the engine on the 64mm port.
Jan 15, 2010, 10:44 AM
#9
The 64mm will make more power. 80mm port may sound like it will make more power but it is just the opposite. The surge port is effectively a boost leak right at the inlet. at low airflow the air gets recirculated right at mouth of turbo. The noise you here is air circulating that would normally be available to the engine on the 64mm port.
Jan 15, 2010, 02:16 PM
#10
Surge Line
Surge is the left hand boundary of the compressor map. Operation to the left of this line represents a region of flow instability. This region is characterized by mild flutter to wildly fluctuating boost and “barking” from the compressor. Continued operation within this region can lead to premature turbo failure due to heavy thrust loading.
Surge is most commonly experienced when one of two situations exist. The first and most damaging is surge under load. It can be an indication that your compressor is too large. Surge is also commonly experienced when the throttle is quickly closed after boosting. This occurs because mass flow is drastically reduced as the throttle is closed, but the turbo is still spinning and generating boost. This immediately drives the operating point to the far left of the compressor map, right into surge.
Surge will decay once the turbo speed finally slows enough to reduce the boost and move the operating point back into the stable region. This situation is commonly addressed by using a Blow-Off Valves (BOV) or bypass valve. A BOV functions to vent intake pressure to atmosphere so that the mass flow ramps down smoothly, keeping the compressor out of surge. In the case of a recirculating bypass valve, the airflow is recirculated back to the compressor inlet.
A Ported Shroud compressor (see Fig. 2) is a feature that is incorporated into the compressor housing. It functions to move the surge line further to the left (see Fig. 3) by allowing some airflow to exit the wheel through the port to keep surge from occurring. This provides additional useable range and allows a larger compressor to be used for higher flow requirements without risking running the compressor into a dangerous surge condition. The presence of the ported shroud usually has a minor negative impact on compressor efficiency.
SOURCE: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
I'll take a MINOR reduction in compressor efficiency to keep my trust bearing alive. If you''re not experiencing surge with a 64mm Red then you're not controlling the wastegate actuator properly to optimize response.
Surge is the left hand boundary of the compressor map. Operation to the left of this line represents a region of flow instability. This region is characterized by mild flutter to wildly fluctuating boost and “barking” from the compressor. Continued operation within this region can lead to premature turbo failure due to heavy thrust loading.
Surge is most commonly experienced when one of two situations exist. The first and most damaging is surge under load. It can be an indication that your compressor is too large. Surge is also commonly experienced when the throttle is quickly closed after boosting. This occurs because mass flow is drastically reduced as the throttle is closed, but the turbo is still spinning and generating boost. This immediately drives the operating point to the far left of the compressor map, right into surge.
Surge will decay once the turbo speed finally slows enough to reduce the boost and move the operating point back into the stable region. This situation is commonly addressed by using a Blow-Off Valves (BOV) or bypass valve. A BOV functions to vent intake pressure to atmosphere so that the mass flow ramps down smoothly, keeping the compressor out of surge. In the case of a recirculating bypass valve, the airflow is recirculated back to the compressor inlet.
A Ported Shroud compressor (see Fig. 2) is a feature that is incorporated into the compressor housing. It functions to move the surge line further to the left (see Fig. 3) by allowing some airflow to exit the wheel through the port to keep surge from occurring. This provides additional useable range and allows a larger compressor to be used for higher flow requirements without risking running the compressor into a dangerous surge condition. The presence of the ported shroud usually has a minor negative impact on compressor efficiency.
SOURCE: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
I'll take a MINOR reduction in compressor efficiency to keep my trust bearing alive. If you''re not experiencing surge with a 64mm Red then you're not controlling the wastegate actuator properly to optimize response.
Jan 15, 2010, 02:43 PM
#12
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in those videos, how much boost and what BOV are you using? sounds exactly like a weak BOV not being able to hold the spike.
also, don't dyno it in 4th if you don't want to burn your clutch up
(that or reduce the dyno load if equipped).
also, don't dyno it in 4th if you don't want to burn your clutch up
(that or reduce the dyno load if equipped).
Jan 15, 2010, 04:58 PM
#13
I do all my pulls in 4th. I do some pulls in 5th if the person will be doing 5th gear pulls.
In the video it's a crushed 9 bov that's been gus Mahone modded... means it won't leak. I'm running 30+psi in the video. The surge happened below 20psi.
In the video it's a crushed 9 bov that's been gus Mahone modded... means it won't leak. I'm running 30+psi in the video. The surge happened below 20psi.
