Buschur Racing Stage 3 dyno charts
Buschur Racing Stage 3 dyno charts
Just for some comparisons below you will find our dyno pull from our Stage 3 kit. I went to look at our pulls after seeing the success that guys are seeing with Al's dynoflash.
I hate to loose business over claims of super smooth curves and such and wanted to see how ours compared. From what I am seeing there really isn't much comparison. I don't think you are going to find a smoother dyno graph than this regardless of what you tune the car with. This car still has the stock ECU in it tuned with an AFC. Also has stock injectors and pump. This is also on the stock turbo at 19 psi and pump gas. Our EVO ran a 12.09 at 115 mph just like this.
Check it out and compare for yourself.
I hate to loose business over claims of super smooth curves and such and wanted to see how ours compared. From what I am seeing there really isn't much comparison. I don't think you are going to find a smoother dyno graph than this regardless of what you tune the car with. This car still has the stock ECU in it tuned with an AFC. Also has stock injectors and pump. This is also on the stock turbo at 19 psi and pump gas. Our EVO ran a 12.09 at 115 mph just like this.
Check it out and compare for yourself.
Also, here is a stage 4 dyno run...
Also here is our Stage 4 kit. This is on race gas, bigger fuel pump and upgraded injectors. 21 psi boost on the stock turbo, head, shortblock etc. The tuning is still done with an AFC and stock computer.
The car ran an 11.65 at 117.88 mph like this, with the exception of the AEM. BUT NOTE, the dyno graph I am showing you is WITH the AFC for tuning.
Please note the smoothest curve you have layed your eyes on yet and also note that the HP at redline hardly drops off at all compared to most the other stock turbo charts you have all seen.
Just a litte comparison so you can make the right choices.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The car ran an 11.65 at 117.88 mph like this, with the exception of the AEM. BUT NOTE, the dyno graph I am showing you is WITH the AFC for tuning.
Please note the smoothest curve you have layed your eyes on yet and also note that the HP at redline hardly drops off at all compared to most the other stock turbo charts you have all seen.
Just a litte comparison so you can make the right choices.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
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Very Impressive. I got the flash done this weekend, just for the fact I didn't feel like buying a pocketlogger or some other odb2 datalogger to finetune my car; especially since I have the AEM coming at the end of the month. But I'm sure the settings you ship with are probably very close with most cars.
I'll probably give you guys a call and see if you would want to setup my AEM.
You guys should get an AWD dyno, it makes for alot of fun at these Evo meets.
I'll probably give you guys a call and see if you would want to setup my AEM.
You guys should get an AWD dyno, it makes for alot of fun at these Evo meets.
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Seems like comparing appels to oranges to me - two totally different products intended for different end users
and compared in a different manner
We don't offer "packages" of parts at this time - we only fine tune the ecu by reflashing to find additional power on the client's car
Our sole function is to optimize the a/f ratio and ign timing to safely tune the car to make it perform better - about 20 whp - and make it hold boost longer with stock boost solinoid. We do this on a whole variety of Evos ranging from mildly modified to wild ones like min making over 535 whp.
We have to tune the cars within a 2 hour time frame and we have to tune them on the street pump gas the clinet rolls in on.
A true comparision would be to have you tune a stock evo with a safc and then I tune it with the Dyno Flash and compare the two.
Another way to compare my Dyno Flash to your Stage kits would be to have you tune one with the SAFC - then dyno it - then afterwards let me tune it with my Dynoflash and compare the power bands between the two tuning methods.
BTW - I do have one car from last week that had a BR pre-set SAFC installed that we tuned and will be happy to post up that comparision.
Also I did one non BR saf equiped car this weekend and was able to get some mad low end power out of it with the reflash.
In any event its very silly to draw any comparsion between the two products. If you wish I'd be happy to test against your modified cars with my own personal modified car to see which one draws a flatter trq line - but as you know the comparsion is just about as pointless as comparing the stock evo with dyno flash to your stage 3 and 4. First - your numbers and 2 wd and ours are 4 wd. Secondly, as you know, the higher a power reading you get on a dyno jet - the more of the minor, slight fluxuations are not shown in the dyno sheet. In other words the resolution is diminished as you go up in power. The slight bumps you see in a 260 whp power band don't show up in a 360 whp dyno sheet and they really don't show u in a 500 whop dyno sheet which looks like a straight line no matter what little 10 whp dips occur.
Bottom line is the BR products are very good and they work great. We highly recomend them and find them to be a great value for the money. However, to me its silly to try and put a pre-set safc into the same leauge as a reflash of the ecu. For a whole series of reasons that have been previously discussed the SAFC is a very primative "band aid" like solution which does not address all the needs to tuning an evo - eg spark and boost.
Certainly the AEM is a much more complex and advanced unit which is one of the best on the market - but the cost of purchase and the tinme required to tune it are significant. It really does not make sense for stock evos and mildly modified ones.
If you guys would be up for a friendly compeitition - same day - same dyno - I am down for that !
and compared in a different manner
We don't offer "packages" of parts at this time - we only fine tune the ecu by reflashing to find additional power on the client's car
Our sole function is to optimize the a/f ratio and ign timing to safely tune the car to make it perform better - about 20 whp - and make it hold boost longer with stock boost solinoid. We do this on a whole variety of Evos ranging from mildly modified to wild ones like min making over 535 whp.
We have to tune the cars within a 2 hour time frame and we have to tune them on the street pump gas the clinet rolls in on.
A true comparision would be to have you tune a stock evo with a safc and then I tune it with the Dyno Flash and compare the two.
Another way to compare my Dyno Flash to your Stage kits would be to have you tune one with the SAFC - then dyno it - then afterwards let me tune it with my Dynoflash and compare the power bands between the two tuning methods.
BTW - I do have one car from last week that had a BR pre-set SAFC installed that we tuned and will be happy to post up that comparision.
Also I did one non BR saf equiped car this weekend and was able to get some mad low end power out of it with the reflash.
In any event its very silly to draw any comparsion between the two products. If you wish I'd be happy to test against your modified cars with my own personal modified car to see which one draws a flatter trq line - but as you know the comparsion is just about as pointless as comparing the stock evo with dyno flash to your stage 3 and 4. First - your numbers and 2 wd and ours are 4 wd. Secondly, as you know, the higher a power reading you get on a dyno jet - the more of the minor, slight fluxuations are not shown in the dyno sheet. In other words the resolution is diminished as you go up in power. The slight bumps you see in a 260 whp power band don't show up in a 360 whp dyno sheet and they really don't show u in a 500 whop dyno sheet which looks like a straight line no matter what little 10 whp dips occur.
Bottom line is the BR products are very good and they work great. We highly recomend them and find them to be a great value for the money. However, to me its silly to try and put a pre-set safc into the same leauge as a reflash of the ecu. For a whole series of reasons that have been previously discussed the SAFC is a very primative "band aid" like solution which does not address all the needs to tuning an evo - eg spark and boost.
Certainly the AEM is a much more complex and advanced unit which is one of the best on the market - but the cost of purchase and the tinme required to tune it are significant. It really does not make sense for stock evos and mildly modified ones.
If you guys would be up for a friendly compeitition - same day - same dyno - I am down for that !
Last edited by DynoFlash; Nov 3, 2003 at 08:21 AM.
Al,
Not starting a pissing contest here. My point is I keep hearing about how smooth the tune is with the dynotune. I think I even read that you said it was the smoothest. I am just showing that the AFC when tuned correctly really provides a super clean pull.
I don't think it is comparing apples to oranges. They are both tuning tools. I also know you aren't selling packages. That isn't to say that the cars that were tuned didn't have other people mods on them making them "package cars". I was actually looking at the 327 hp graph that was posted. That car lost a ton of HP on the top end and the graph in my opnion wasn't all the smooth compared to the ones I posted.
Tons of way to tune cars. Al is definetely making some great power gains and improving the curves greatly. Also has the benefit of removing fuel cut, speed limiters and rev limiters, these are things the AFC can't do. The AFC when tuned right CAN make HUGE power and a VERY smooth power curve.
I also realize that your car is making 535 whp with a shot of NOS plus what it ingest in NOS through the intercooler spray bar. GREAT HP! Tuning that with the stock ECU and a flash program is also VERY impressive. Just remember that you have definetely, along with Dan, done more modifications to your cars than anyone else in the country to get there. We are still running the stock head, bottom end and turbo on our EVO. Hard to compare a fully built head/shortblock and big HKS turbo kit with a header and external wastegate to a basically STOCK EVO.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Not starting a pissing contest here. My point is I keep hearing about how smooth the tune is with the dynotune. I think I even read that you said it was the smoothest. I am just showing that the AFC when tuned correctly really provides a super clean pull.
I don't think it is comparing apples to oranges. They are both tuning tools. I also know you aren't selling packages. That isn't to say that the cars that were tuned didn't have other people mods on them making them "package cars". I was actually looking at the 327 hp graph that was posted. That car lost a ton of HP on the top end and the graph in my opnion wasn't all the smooth compared to the ones I posted.
Tons of way to tune cars. Al is definetely making some great power gains and improving the curves greatly. Also has the benefit of removing fuel cut, speed limiters and rev limiters, these are things the AFC can't do. The AFC when tuned right CAN make HUGE power and a VERY smooth power curve.
I also realize that your car is making 535 whp with a shot of NOS plus what it ingest in NOS through the intercooler spray bar. GREAT HP! Tuning that with the stock ECU and a flash program is also VERY impressive. Just remember that you have definetely, along with Dan, done more modifications to your cars than anyone else in the country to get there. We are still running the stock head, bottom end and turbo on our EVO. Hard to compare a fully built head/shortblock and big HKS turbo kit with a header and external wastegate to a basically STOCK EVO.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
O.K. here are the graphs from our pulls and our stages.
This graph shows the Stock HP we made compared to Stg2, Stg3 and Stg 4.
Nice smooth graphs. Very little loss of HP at redline.
Hope this helps you guys out and helps you make the right decisions on what to purchase.
Stage 2 ran a 12.42 at 111.20 mph on pump gas.
Stage 3 ran a 12.09 at 115.09 mph on pump gas.
Stage 4 ran a 11.65 at 117.88 mph on race gas.
Also while you are viewing this make sure you remember we have not touched the cylinder head in anyway-including the stock head bolts, we have not touched the shortblock in anyway-including the stock rod bolts. The cams have been changed to HKS 264's. The car is still also running the BONE stock turbo, exhaust manifold and 02 housing.
Take care all,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
This graph shows the Stock HP we made compared to Stg2, Stg3 and Stg 4.
Nice smooth graphs. Very little loss of HP at redline.
Hope this helps you guys out and helps you make the right decisions on what to purchase.
Stage 2 ran a 12.42 at 111.20 mph on pump gas.
Stage 3 ran a 12.09 at 115.09 mph on pump gas.
Stage 4 ran a 11.65 at 117.88 mph on race gas.
Also while you are viewing this make sure you remember we have not touched the cylinder head in anyway-including the stock head bolts, we have not touched the shortblock in anyway-including the stock rod bolts. The cams have been changed to HKS 264's. The car is still also running the BONE stock turbo, exhaust manifold and 02 housing.
Take care all,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally posted by davidbuschur
Al,
Not starting a pissing contest here. My point is I keep hearing about how smooth the tune is with the dynotune. I think I even read that you said it was the smoothest. I am just showing that the AFC when tuned correctly really provides a super clean pull.
I don't think it is comparing apples to oranges. They are both tuning tools. I also know you aren't selling packages. That isn't to say that the cars that were tuned didn't have other people mods on them making them "package cars". I was actually looking at the 327 hp graph that was posted. That car lost a ton of HP on the top end and the graph in my opnion wasn't all the smooth compared to the ones I posted.
Tons of way to tune cars. Al is definetely making some great power gains and improving the curves greatly. Also has the benefit of removing fuel cut, speed limiters and rev limiters, these are things the AFC can't do. The AFC when tuned right CAN make HUGE power and a VERY smooth power curve.
I also realize that your car is making 535 whp with a shot of NOS plus what it ingest in NOS through the intercooler spray bar. GREAT HP! Tuning that with the stock ECU and a flash program is also VERY impressive. Just remember that you have definetely, along with Dan, done more modifications to your cars than anyone else in the country to get there. We are still running the stock head, bottom end and turbo on our EVO. Hard to compare a fully built head/shortblock and big HKS turbo kit with a header and external wastegate to a basically STOCK EVO.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Al,
Not starting a pissing contest here. My point is I keep hearing about how smooth the tune is with the dynotune. I think I even read that you said it was the smoothest. I am just showing that the AFC when tuned correctly really provides a super clean pull.
I don't think it is comparing apples to oranges. They are both tuning tools. I also know you aren't selling packages. That isn't to say that the cars that were tuned didn't have other people mods on them making them "package cars". I was actually looking at the 327 hp graph that was posted. That car lost a ton of HP on the top end and the graph in my opnion wasn't all the smooth compared to the ones I posted.
Tons of way to tune cars. Al is definetely making some great power gains and improving the curves greatly. Also has the benefit of removing fuel cut, speed limiters and rev limiters, these are things the AFC can't do. The AFC when tuned right CAN make HUGE power and a VERY smooth power curve.
I also realize that your car is making 535 whp with a shot of NOS plus what it ingest in NOS through the intercooler spray bar. GREAT HP! Tuning that with the stock ECU and a flash program is also VERY impressive. Just remember that you have definetely, along with Dan, done more modifications to your cars than anyone else in the country to get there. We are still running the stock head, bottom end and turbo on our EVO. Hard to compare a fully built head/shortblock and big HKS turbo kit with a header and external wastegate to a basically STOCK EVO.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
In our opinion BR is the grand daddy of all DSM tuners and certainly one of the top world's best experts on DSM's in general and evos in particular.
I can't disagree with anything dave says here
ALL these tuning methods can yield great results with the right person tuning them.
For instance - the unichip whcih as a total disaster on wrx's - still enabled me to run a 12.7 back in Aug of 2001 and claim the mark for fastest WRX in the usa at that point. My buddy with a porsche turbo runs a unichip in it and he makes over 600 whp on 94 octane pump gas and runs 10.3 in the 1.4 on street tires
ALL the tuning devices do the same thing - its just adjusting the jets and turning the distributor in your old v-8 chevy - just doing it with a cpu.
Certainly - we feel that the AEM - or autronic boards which are full stand alones would kick the SAFC's butt in a dyno contest - just by being able to tweak the ign timing as well as the a/f
In my opinion - the reflash falls somewhere between the stand alone plug in board and the safc - it has significant advantages over the safc or any piggy back - but also has other disatvantages - not end user adjustbale.
In any event - we certianly don't feel like we are in any compeition with BR. We recomend BR products 100% - they are simply the best products for the dollar you can buy.
David,
Forgive my ignorance, as I am not well versed in dyno posts, and I don't know how much of a factor this is, but could you please post that graph with the smoothing set to the lowest setting rather than the highest. I am just looking at this from a purely analytical format, and I know any peaky line can be made smooth with enough averaging.
Al,
What sort of smoothing was used for your graphs. I think when comparing, it would be nice to know if equal parameters were employed.
Forgive my ignorance, as I am not well versed in dyno posts, and I don't know how much of a factor this is, but could you please post that graph with the smoothing set to the lowest setting rather than the highest. I am just looking at this from a purely analytical format, and I know any peaky line can be made smooth with enough averaging.
Al,
What sort of smoothing was used for your graphs. I think when comparing, it would be nice to know if equal parameters were employed.
Here is the Dyno chart in question:
Note that the baseline was tuned by SAFC alone. The little power up top was compensated by the huge gain accross the board. Not to mention I'm running a lot richer now which is more important to me than anything else. We'll see how she does on the track this Wednesday. Stay tuned.
BTW the Bushur Exhaust I heard last Saturday was nice. I don't think it's that much louder the RMR.
RMR for sale any takers?
Note that the baseline was tuned by SAFC alone. The little power up top was compensated by the huge gain accross the board. Not to mention I'm running a lot richer now which is more important to me than anything else. We'll see how she does on the track this Wednesday. Stay tuned.
BTW the Bushur Exhaust I heard last Saturday was nice. I don't think it's that much louder the RMR.
RMR for sale any takers?
Last edited by EVOLUTION/RC51; Nov 3, 2003 at 09:02 AM.
Tym is going to kick my *** if I ask him to go through getting them again for me.
If you notice on the graphs I just posted the HP numbers for stock and stg 2 are lower than we advertise. The numbers without the smoothing on are typically HIGHER not lower, as you can see by these graphs.
If you want to see Stg1 and 2 with the smoothing off just go to our website and check out the stages, the charts posted there are with the smoothing on 1.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
If you notice on the graphs I just posted the HP numbers for stock and stg 2 are lower than we advertise. The numbers without the smoothing on are typically HIGHER not lower, as you can see by these graphs.
If you want to see Stg1 and 2 with the smoothing off just go to our website and check out the stages, the charts posted there are with the smoothing on 1.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com