Red hardpipe kit
I keep expecting to hear another pathetic vendor "...I'm so tired of people bashing pricing when they don't know the costs associated with bringing a part to market..." Well the US consumer is tired of totally outrageous pricing in the import market. It's gotten so out of hand that I sometimes question why I didn't buy a domestic **** box. If these parts are not outrageously marked up, the vendors need to do a little house cleaning... A hell of a lot of money is being wasted. I don't know how far up the chain the price gouging is going, but obviously it is all being passed on to the consumer. I find it funny that David kind of put it into perspective without really having to break it down. His upper kit is $330 with a 1 Gen BOV (valve he sells for $140). With that in mind, David could probably offer the exact same kit as them, (not that he would for reasons already stated) with a nice profit, for the mentioned $400-450. So my statement of the consumer being "***-raped" is pretty spot on.
Questionable vendors, indeed.
It's a good thing we have guys like David around to keep things reasonable.
I know that he even refunds your money on a cancelled order the same day you request it, unlike other guys in the business. ::cough, cough::
Imagine that.
It's a good thing we have guys like David around to keep things reasonable.
I know that he even refunds your money on a cancelled order the same day you request it, unlike other guys in the business. ::cough, cough::
Imagine that.
Last edited by 4G63>OOOO; Nov 19, 2003 at 08:38 AM.
Yes, I don't mean to hijack, but David, I have a question on the battery.
How are the cold cranking starts with it? What kind of voltage will we see with it? I'm used to about 14.7 when it starts up and settles around 14.3. I've heard smaller batteries sometimes have voltage problems, but I'm sure that is just the cheaper variants.
How are the cold cranking starts with it? What kind of voltage will we see with it? I'm used to about 14.7 when it starts up and settles around 14.3. I've heard smaller batteries sometimes have voltage problems, but I'm sure that is just the cheaper variants.
really, im disgusted every time I need to buy something for the Evo. It seems that parts are inflated to the point of being retarded, but the retarded ones are the guys that actually go out and pay for these parts. I mean come on, even if it costs $500 for the pipes, its alot of money. The supplies costs them about $125-150 , labor is done by a contractor, final product costs them $250, net profit =100%. Then the funny thing about it all is that if there were a shop that offered the pipes for lets say $300, everyone would think the quality is probably no good!COME ON, they're pipes!!! no technology involved!!!!! they are pipes!!!!!!!!!
As long as there is demand there will be price rapings, hell I never thought I would ever, ever spend over $1000 for a clutch, and like a retard I did.
As long as there is demand there will be price rapings, hell I never thought I would ever, ever spend over $1000 for a clutch, and like a retard I did.
I HIGHLY doubt that the raw material even costs $125. I bet it's more like $30-$50 ish. It's just approximately 6-8 feet of 2 1/2 - 3" mild steel tubing.
How can someone justify the cost of this when most clutches are less or around that price? The technology and materials that go into a clutch FAR exceed that.
Plus the fact that MOST if not all catback exhausts, which have just as much piping, sometimes even bent more, with a muffler (which in itself is more complex than all the tubing) costs hundreds of dollars less than that?
You're right... people will pay for this. This is why they continue to charge the amount for some of this stuff.
Although, take a look at the prices for Evo stuff lately... notice a trend? All the prices are dropping, because the initial demand has slowed down. I expect to see a lot of the prices for stuff drop like a rock in the next year.
How can someone justify the cost of this when most clutches are less or around that price? The technology and materials that go into a clutch FAR exceed that.
Plus the fact that MOST if not all catback exhausts, which have just as much piping, sometimes even bent more, with a muffler (which in itself is more complex than all the tubing) costs hundreds of dollars less than that?
You're right... people will pay for this. This is why they continue to charge the amount for some of this stuff.
Although, take a look at the prices for Evo stuff lately... notice a trend? All the prices are dropping, because the initial demand has slowed down. I expect to see a lot of the prices for stuff drop like a rock in the next year.
Yeah, I hope so.
Personally, I'm steering clear of vendors that overcharge/rape their customers for simple stuff like this. You can pull the IC piping off your car, prep it, use a high temp engine paint and get the SAME RESULT from this 800 dollar assfu*k and you get to keep your money.
Again, gotta hand it to the vendors who keep everyone else honest around here (or try to) with reasonable pricing.
It's a buyer's market, folks, give your money to charity if you feel like throwing it away to a greedy vendor.
Personally, I'm steering clear of vendors that overcharge/rape their customers for simple stuff like this. You can pull the IC piping off your car, prep it, use a high temp engine paint and get the SAME RESULT from this 800 dollar assfu*k and you get to keep your money.
Again, gotta hand it to the vendors who keep everyone else honest around here (or try to) with reasonable pricing.
It's a buyer's market, folks, give your money to charity if you feel like throwing it away to a greedy vendor.
"SAME RESULT from this 800 dollar assfu*k and you get to keep your money."
. You're right, for $800 I at least hope the pipes come with a silicone hose adapter that converts them into a turbo ******* machine 
. You're right, for $800 I at least hope the pipes come with a silicone hose adapter that converts them into a turbo ******* machine
well, crap. i only saw this thread today, and you guys have already covered what needs to be pointed out here (thanks a buttload for your point of view, david) but at the risk of adding nothing more than a "me too", i would say that there are certain companies that people should just stay the hell away from.
i figured out pretty quickly what unorthodox racing was about when i had my 3g eclipse, and they were selling underdrive crank pulleys for that car. someone i had learned over time to trust (mike w from RRE) warned people that it wouldn't work, that it wasn't a good idea and shouldn't be done. but UR put up a big stink, claimed he didn't know what he was talking about, and sold lots of them. really screwed a lot of cars before they pulled the products, crying like babies about the 3g's "platform problems", and swearing off the cars. as if a slipshod company's refusal to take money to help destory people's cars was some sort of punishment.
strange, though- how is mike able to predict that a product won't work, and explain exactly why and how it will fail? it's not a crystal ball, folks, it's just being a professional and knowing what the hell you're doing.
the funniest part was when people started pointing out the other cars that had the same exact problems with UR's pulleys installed. there were several. that was about the time i stopped seeing any posts by UR on that board.
to me it seems pretty simple. companies like UR do NOT know what they are doing, do NOT do any viable R&D, and quite simply, do NOT have the knowledge or ability to design and build a quality product. period. everyone here seems to know that those pipes need beads. why doesn't UR know this? are their margins just too thin to justify it when they only charge a measly 800 bux for a length of bent pipe? or do they just not know what the hell they're doing? maybe both, who knows.
there's a reason that people have learned to trust and respect buschur, RRE, and a few other companies of that caliber. unfortunately, there's also a reason the companies like UR stay in business: there's a sucker born every minute. i'll never do business with that company, and i'd honestly think twice about any vendor who sells and promotes their junk. it's hard not to feel like anyone who would sell you one of these for $800 would try to sell you pretty much anything...
i figured out pretty quickly what unorthodox racing was about when i had my 3g eclipse, and they were selling underdrive crank pulleys for that car. someone i had learned over time to trust (mike w from RRE) warned people that it wouldn't work, that it wasn't a good idea and shouldn't be done. but UR put up a big stink, claimed he didn't know what he was talking about, and sold lots of them. really screwed a lot of cars before they pulled the products, crying like babies about the 3g's "platform problems", and swearing off the cars. as if a slipshod company's refusal to take money to help destory people's cars was some sort of punishment.
strange, though- how is mike able to predict that a product won't work, and explain exactly why and how it will fail? it's not a crystal ball, folks, it's just being a professional and knowing what the hell you're doing.
the funniest part was when people started pointing out the other cars that had the same exact problems with UR's pulleys installed. there were several. that was about the time i stopped seeing any posts by UR on that board.
to me it seems pretty simple. companies like UR do NOT know what they are doing, do NOT do any viable R&D, and quite simply, do NOT have the knowledge or ability to design and build a quality product. period. everyone here seems to know that those pipes need beads. why doesn't UR know this? are their margins just too thin to justify it when they only charge a measly 800 bux for a length of bent pipe? or do they just not know what the hell they're doing? maybe both, who knows.
there's a reason that people have learned to trust and respect buschur, RRE, and a few other companies of that caliber. unfortunately, there's also a reason the companies like UR stay in business: there's a sucker born every minute. i'll never do business with that company, and i'd honestly think twice about any vendor who sells and promotes their junk. it's hard not to feel like anyone who would sell you one of these for $800 would try to sell you pretty much anything...
Originally posted by geminix3
well, crap. i only saw this thread today, and you guys have already covered what needs to be pointed out here (thanks a buttload for your point of view, david) but at the risk of adding nothing more than a "me too", i would say that there are certain companies that people should just stay the hell away from.
i figured out pretty quickly what unorthodox racing was about when i had my 3g eclipse, and they were selling underdrive crank pulleys for that car. someone i had learned over time to trust (mike w from RRE) warned people that it wouldn't work, that it wasn't a good idea and shouldn't be done. but UR put up a big stink, claimed he didn't know what he was talking about, and sold lots of them. really screwed a lot of cars before they pulled the products, crying like babies about the 3g's "platform problems", and swearing off the cars. as if a slipshod company's refusal to take money to help destory people's cars was some sort of punishment.
strange, though- how is mike able to predict that a product won't work, and explain exactly why and how it will fail? it's not a crystal ball, folks, it's just being a professional and knowing what the hell you're doing.
the funniest part was when people started pointing out the other cars that had the same exact problems with UR's pulleys installed. there were several. that was about the time i stopped seeing any posts by UR on that board.
to me it seems pretty simple. companies like UR do NOT know what they are doing, do NOT do any viable R&D, and quite simply, do NOT have the knowledge or ability to design and build a quality product. period. everyone here seems to know that those pipes need beads. why doesn't UR know this? are their margins just too thin to justify it when they only charge a measly 800 bux for a length of bent pipe? or do they just not know what the hell they're doing? maybe both, who knows.
there's a reason that people have learned to trust and respect buschur, RRE, and a few other companies of that caliber. unfortunately, there's also a reason the companies like UR stay in business: there's a sucker born every minute. i'll never do business with that company, and i'd honestly think twice about any vendor who sells and promotes their junk. it's hard not to feel like anyone who would sell you one of these for $800 would try to sell you pretty much anything...
well, crap. i only saw this thread today, and you guys have already covered what needs to be pointed out here (thanks a buttload for your point of view, david) but at the risk of adding nothing more than a "me too", i would say that there are certain companies that people should just stay the hell away from.
i figured out pretty quickly what unorthodox racing was about when i had my 3g eclipse, and they were selling underdrive crank pulleys for that car. someone i had learned over time to trust (mike w from RRE) warned people that it wouldn't work, that it wasn't a good idea and shouldn't be done. but UR put up a big stink, claimed he didn't know what he was talking about, and sold lots of them. really screwed a lot of cars before they pulled the products, crying like babies about the 3g's "platform problems", and swearing off the cars. as if a slipshod company's refusal to take money to help destory people's cars was some sort of punishment.
strange, though- how is mike able to predict that a product won't work, and explain exactly why and how it will fail? it's not a crystal ball, folks, it's just being a professional and knowing what the hell you're doing.
the funniest part was when people started pointing out the other cars that had the same exact problems with UR's pulleys installed. there were several. that was about the time i stopped seeing any posts by UR on that board.
to me it seems pretty simple. companies like UR do NOT know what they are doing, do NOT do any viable R&D, and quite simply, do NOT have the knowledge or ability to design and build a quality product. period. everyone here seems to know that those pipes need beads. why doesn't UR know this? are their margins just too thin to justify it when they only charge a measly 800 bux for a length of bent pipe? or do they just not know what the hell they're doing? maybe both, who knows.
there's a reason that people have learned to trust and respect buschur, RRE, and a few other companies of that caliber. unfortunately, there's also a reason the companies like UR stay in business: there's a sucker born every minute. i'll never do business with that company, and i'd honestly think twice about any vendor who sells and promotes their junk. it's hard not to feel like anyone who would sell you one of these for $800 would try to sell you pretty much anything...
These guys are obviously here for the long haul and not just trying to make a quick buck
Guys - I hear ya on the price thing - and I will see what if anything can be done about it. I do see the issue of supply costs coming up, and thats something I can personally comment on. I have no idea what mild steel tubing is supposed to sell for, all I know is what it costs around here from a partiuclar supplier (which is Kooks - same people we buy from when we need it, same people UR buys from). When we did the piping on my brother's GVR4, we used 2.5 inch upper and lower, and a cmobination of straight pipe and mandrel bends. Material costs were $150.00 (including the 1G BOV flange). Start to finish labor time was about 5 hours. We did not powder coat it (just painted), but from the places around here, it would be about $100.00 for all the pipes. Not trying to justify what the price is (again I have no idea what the raw costs of this kit are, only what our cost as a retailer is for it). I know on our end there is no gross markup (less than 20%).
Maybe this is just is one of those parts that cannot be sold by anyone but the people building it? I do know that the raw materials prices are high around here - why I have no idea, as we buy these materials very infrequently, but Kooks is generally the only game in town for getting the sizing and pipes needed quickly.
Maybe this is just is one of those parts that cannot be sold by anyone but the people building it? I do know that the raw materials prices are high around here - why I have no idea, as we buy these materials very infrequently, but Kooks is generally the only game in town for getting the sizing and pipes needed quickly.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Nov 20, 2003 at 01:23 PM.
I think Buschur's volume and direct dealing with Kooks for exhausts and piping kits probably gets him preferred pricing.
Would probably be cheaper if a run of 50 were done at once, but I know I wouldn't want to front that cash or deal with that inventory.
I think we give these guys a hard time sometimes about pricing. Yes, domestic aftermarket performance parts are CHEAP, but look at their volume. The Evo aftermarket right now is targeted at 4000 cars, period. These guys can't do the kind of volume that gets low pricing like a header from Summit or Jegs.
It's times like this I'm glad I'm a hostage negotiator.
Would probably be cheaper if a run of 50 were done at once, but I know I wouldn't want to front that cash or deal with that inventory.
I think we give these guys a hard time sometimes about pricing. Yes, domestic aftermarket performance parts are CHEAP, but look at their volume. The Evo aftermarket right now is targeted at 4000 cars, period. These guys can't do the kind of volume that gets low pricing like a header from Summit or Jegs.
It's times like this I'm glad I'm a hostage negotiator.
Woops - just noticed I put Buschur instead of UR - corrected it!
But nevertheless you are right - a place like Buschur does this stuff all day long, and has been for a long time. So he's got the suppliers (or the supply on hand already most likely).
Maybe we can get UR to change the kit around a bit and come down on the pricing....doesn't hurt to ask.
Does Bushur's involve any cutting BTW? (have never seen it except in pictures)
But nevertheless you are right - a place like Buschur does this stuff all day long, and has been for a long time. So he's got the suppliers (or the supply on hand already most likely).
Maybe we can get UR to change the kit around a bit and come down on the pricing....doesn't hurt to ask.
Does Bushur's involve any cutting BTW? (have never seen it except in pictures)