4G64 + O-Ring + .20 Advice
4G64 + O-Ring + .20 Advice
4G64 + O-Ring + .20 Advice
Ok so I’m getting a lot of conflicting information. If some people could weight in on opinions it would really really help. I have a 4G64 block bored .20 over and I want to run an O-Ring. My understanding is the best combination is Mitsu head gasket and O-Ring the head with a grove and steel ring insert. My problem is no Mitsu .20 over gasket, only cometic. They don’t recommend O-ringing their gaskets. I’ve heard about boaring over the oem gasket (assuming that requires a torque plate).
What do you guys think? The goal is O-ring .20 over 4g64 block and no leaks.
Most builders use the Mitsu gasket that is bored out at a machine shop. I know that is what Buschur did for the gasket on my 2.1. So I would go with the Mitsu gasket taken out a bit and the O-Ring.
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
Most builders use the Mitsu gasket that is bored out at a machine shop. I know that is what Buschur did for the gasket on my 2.1. So I would go with the Mitsu gasket taken out a bit and the O-Ring.
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
Most builders use the Mitsu gasket that is bored out at a machine shop. I know that is what Buschur did for the gasket on my 2.1. So I would go with the Mitsu gasket taken out a bit and the O-Ring.
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
People on here have been giving mixed reviews on O-Ringed blocks and heads for years though. Some swear by them, others have had nothing but problems with them. Why exactly do you want to run an O-Ring? Why not just stick with the tried and true decked block and head with a good gasket and strong headstuds?
I wanted the O-Ring just for reliability.
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lol nope my head is not oringed either came off of mike@awdmotorsports personal evo 8 735whp mid consistant 9 second daily driver(guessing bastard 1) and I asked him when it was at the machine shop being cleaned checked and redecked if i needed to go ahead and have it oring and he laughed and told me not needed at all. SO far A1
Where did you read that O-Ringing was so much more reliable? Many like myself think it is not needed unless you are running extreme boost with the motor, and the o-ring is just old technology.
FWIW, I was reading this on a little search I did on o-ringing a while back, it is from nasoic:
To my understanding o-ringing the block or the head prove to be about equally effective. That said I would say it depends if you want to have receiver grooves machined. The most conventional method is to machine and o-ring the block, then machine receiver grooves opposite the o-rings in the heads. I guess it can probably be done in reverse fashion as well.
As far as the receiver grooves are concerned, it not only helps in high compression and or boosted applications, but helps wet motors from losing fluid which is a common problem with copper head gaskets. It allows the o-ring to literally push the gasket into the receiver groove to provide a better seal. Speaking of copper gaskets here is a bit of info from SCE regarding this stuff;
O-ring grooves may be cut in either the block or cylinder head. When using copper head gaskets thinner than .050, O-ring height should be no more than 25% of gasket thickness. For instance, the proper dimensions for an .043 thick gasket using .041 wire would be; a .038 to .040 groove width (provides a .001 interference fit), and a .032 groove depth (leaves .008-.010 of the wire protruding above the deck). This machining can be done at most high performance machine shops
When receiver grooves are necessary, alignment of O-ring and receiver groove is critical, as is the depth and width of the receiver groove. Generally receiver groove depth should be 75% of the O-ring protrusion and the receiver groove should be 1.5 times the wire width. Example: If the O-ring is .041 wide and .015 above the deck; receiver groove should be .012 deep and .060 wide.
While the machining of O-ring and receiver grooves must be done by a machinist, the installation of the O-ring wire can be done by anyone, using common hand tools. When tapping O-ring wire into the groove, use care to avoid denting the wire. SCE provides an O-ring installation kit, (SCE PART #31542) which includes instructions, an installation tool and O-ring wire. When cutting stainless O-ring wire, file the ends square to provide the tightest possible seal.
In an engine that tends to exhibit sealing issues by consequence of its design, O-ringing has merit. IF the desired torque/power levels can be attained without sealing issues, there is no real reason to O-ring anything.
And where O-ringing is done, several factors must be considered. It isn't as simple as it looks, and getting it wrong can mean creating an issue that didn't exist previously.
FYI
And where O-ringing is done, several factors must be considered. It isn't as simple as it looks, and getting it wrong can mean creating an issue that didn't exist previously.
FYI
That is just what I am getting at, I have read about far more people coming on the forums here with issues due to the O-Ring and the head/block than those with just the tried and true headgasket and decking method.
Where did you read that O-Ringing was so much more reliable? Many like myself think it is not needed unless you are running extreme boost with the motor, and the o-ring is just old technology.
FWIW, I was reading this on a little search I did on o-ringing a while back, it is from nasoic:
To my understanding o-ringing the block or the head prove to be about equally effective. That said I would say it depends if you want to have receiver grooves machined. The most conventional method is to machine and o-ring the block, then machine receiver grooves opposite the o-rings in the heads. I guess it can probably be done in reverse fashion as well.
As far as the receiver grooves are concerned, it not only helps in high compression and or boosted applications, but helps wet motors from losing fluid which is a common problem with copper head gaskets. It allows the o-ring to literally push the gasket into the receiver groove to provide a better seal. Speaking of copper gaskets here is a bit of info from SCE regarding this stuff;
O-ring grooves may be cut in either the block or cylinder head. When using copper head gaskets thinner than .050, O-ring height should be no more than 25% of gasket thickness. For instance, the proper dimensions for an .043 thick gasket using .041 wire would be; a .038 to .040 groove width (provides a .001 interference fit), and a .032 groove depth (leaves .008-.010 of the wire protruding above the deck). This machining can be done at most high performance machine shops
When receiver grooves are necessary, alignment of O-ring and receiver groove is critical, as is the depth and width of the receiver groove. Generally receiver groove depth should be 75% of the O-ring protrusion and the receiver groove should be 1.5 times the wire width. Example: If the O-ring is .041 wide and .015 above the deck; receiver groove should be .012 deep and .060 wide.
While the machining of O-ring and receiver grooves must be done by a machinist, the installation of the O-ring wire can be done by anyone, using common hand tools. When tapping O-ring wire into the groove, use care to avoid denting the wire. SCE provides an O-ring installation kit, (SCE PART #31542) which includes instructions, an installation tool and O-ring wire. When cutting stainless O-ring wire, file the ends square to provide the tightest possible seal.
Where did you read that O-Ringing was so much more reliable? Many like myself think it is not needed unless you are running extreme boost with the motor, and the o-ring is just old technology.
FWIW, I was reading this on a little search I did on o-ringing a while back, it is from nasoic:
To my understanding o-ringing the block or the head prove to be about equally effective. That said I would say it depends if you want to have receiver grooves machined. The most conventional method is to machine and o-ring the block, then machine receiver grooves opposite the o-rings in the heads. I guess it can probably be done in reverse fashion as well.
As far as the receiver grooves are concerned, it not only helps in high compression and or boosted applications, but helps wet motors from losing fluid which is a common problem with copper head gaskets. It allows the o-ring to literally push the gasket into the receiver groove to provide a better seal. Speaking of copper gaskets here is a bit of info from SCE regarding this stuff;
O-ring grooves may be cut in either the block or cylinder head. When using copper head gaskets thinner than .050, O-ring height should be no more than 25% of gasket thickness. For instance, the proper dimensions for an .043 thick gasket using .041 wire would be; a .038 to .040 groove width (provides a .001 interference fit), and a .032 groove depth (leaves .008-.010 of the wire protruding above the deck). This machining can be done at most high performance machine shops
When receiver grooves are necessary, alignment of O-ring and receiver groove is critical, as is the depth and width of the receiver groove. Generally receiver groove depth should be 75% of the O-ring protrusion and the receiver groove should be 1.5 times the wire width. Example: If the O-ring is .041 wide and .015 above the deck; receiver groove should be .012 deep and .060 wide.
While the machining of O-ring and receiver grooves must be done by a machinist, the installation of the O-ring wire can be done by anyone, using common hand tools. When tapping O-ring wire into the groove, use care to avoid denting the wire. SCE provides an O-ring installation kit, (SCE PART #31542) which includes instructions, an installation tool and O-ring wire. When cutting stainless O-ring wire, file the ends square to provide the tightest possible seal.
I can't remember where I read it was more reliable, I do see where there are two large camps (O-Ring, and not)and that both have good experiences with their individual setups. I noticed it's the same with some fo the head gasket manufacturers. Some people swear by a certain brand others hate it and blame it for individual failures. Also thank you for the info this is very useful.
The issue was the additional clearance for the .20 larger diameter cylinder bores.