Cylinder heads, short blocks, flow benches....
Mar 6, 2004, 09:06 AM
#62
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that wasn't done on the EVO, it was an 94 Talon and even though the engines are similar, the results aren't the same (btw: Norris Designs uses JUN on their 10second evo)
Last edited by evo542; Mar 6, 2004 at 09:09 AM.
Mar 6, 2004, 09:32 AM
#63
Originally posted by RichJ
David,
I'm a big fan of your shop, but I think this is the wrong thing for you to do with the car right now. The bulk of your customer base is looking to do stepwise improvements to our almost new cars and, except for those few who have either blown their bottom end or have more money than the average Evo owner to spend on mods, are interested in delaying a rebuilt bottom end as long as possible. I think we are also very interested in knowing how far the stock bottom end can be pushed and would prefer to see you blow an engine than pull it out preemptively.
I think you actually would get more credit for taking a stock bottom end car into the 10s than a built bottom end car into the 9s. I also think that most people know that your shop has built the fastest 4G63 combos before and there's no reason that you can't make an Evo as fast as any other 4G63 car you've done in the past. I really don't think you need to prove it.
I believe that your core Evo customer base would rather that you continue to see how far you can take the stock motor. If you are putting a built bottom end in before a larger turbo and head, I think the presumption is going to be that you aren't confident that the stock bottom end can hold the power and many of your customers are going to shy away from the parts until they can afford a complete motor. Is that the message you are trying to send? Also, we aren't going to know how much of the power that you see with the new head and turbo is coming from a b&b'ed bottom end with a lightweight reciprocating assembly.
Anyhow, I hope you decide to bolt on that head and do some dynos now. Then bolt on that big turbo and see if the motor will hold together. No one will fault you if you blow a motor making in the mid-500whp range. I could be completely wrong about what we all want you to do, but this is just my opinion.
Love your shop, your customer service and your products.
Just hope that you change your mind on this one and put the rebuilt off a little longer on the shop Evo.
David,
I'm a big fan of your shop, but I think this is the wrong thing for you to do with the car right now. The bulk of your customer base is looking to do stepwise improvements to our almost new cars and, except for those few who have either blown their bottom end or have more money than the average Evo owner to spend on mods, are interested in delaying a rebuilt bottom end as long as possible. I think we are also very interested in knowing how far the stock bottom end can be pushed and would prefer to see you blow an engine than pull it out preemptively.
I think you actually would get more credit for taking a stock bottom end car into the 10s than a built bottom end car into the 9s. I also think that most people know that your shop has built the fastest 4G63 combos before and there's no reason that you can't make an Evo as fast as any other 4G63 car you've done in the past. I really don't think you need to prove it.
I believe that your core Evo customer base would rather that you continue to see how far you can take the stock motor. If you are putting a built bottom end in before a larger turbo and head, I think the presumption is going to be that you aren't confident that the stock bottom end can hold the power and many of your customers are going to shy away from the parts until they can afford a complete motor. Is that the message you are trying to send? Also, we aren't going to know how much of the power that you see with the new head and turbo is coming from a b&b'ed bottom end with a lightweight reciprocating assembly.
Anyhow, I hope you decide to bolt on that head and do some dynos now. Then bolt on that big turbo and see if the motor will hold together. No one will fault you if you blow a motor making in the mid-500whp range. I could be completely wrong about what we all want you to do, but this is just my opinion.
Love your shop, your customer service and your products.
Just hope that you change your mind on this one and put the rebuilt off a little longer on the shop Evo.
Mar 6, 2004, 09:48 AM
#64
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I agree with what RichJ stated. While I'd love to see what a fully built motor can do and see Buschur hit a huge "homerun" by building it and running it, frankly I'm more interested in "basehits".
I like Buschur because they have a clearly laid out upgrade path and have demonstrated the gains for each stage. By building this giant killer instead of following a typical progression of their average customer, I'm afraid some of the transparancy of that approach will be lost and will only fuel further arguements and "apples to oranges" comparisions.
I like Buschur because they have a clearly laid out upgrade path and have demonstrated the gains for each stage. By building this giant killer instead of following a typical progression of their average customer, I'm afraid some of the transparancy of that approach will be lost and will only fuel further arguements and "apples to oranges" comparisions.
Mar 6, 2004, 11:07 AM
#65
Even though Buschur Racing is known for their killer performances, I'd say it's their attention to the "average Joe" that has made them great! Now, of course, the big runs establish one as the biggest, and baddest, when the **** talkers come out of the woodwork.
Mar 8, 2004, 07:00 AM
#66
Well, from some of the responses and inputs I am seeing here maybe I will just wait and do the bottom end after more testing.
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 8, 2004, 07:04 AM
#67
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Originally posted by davidbuschur
Well, from some of the responses and inputs I am seeing here maybe I will just wait and do the bottom end after more testing.
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Well, from some of the responses and inputs I am seeing here maybe I will just wait and do the bottom end after more testing.
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I think this will be the path I take.
Mar 8, 2004, 07:35 AM
#68
Dave,
your current testing has brought your car to the 425whp level with all boltons. I think you should continue the bolt on quest to achieve 450-500whp. Which should include br500, headwork, sheet/intake. Doing the block is not a bolt on, but I think the head would be close to qualifying as such. Most people who take their cars beyond the 500whp know what they are doing and can select their own parts for it and usually do. just my 02.
your current testing has brought your car to the 425whp level with all boltons. I think you should continue the bolt on quest to achieve 450-500whp. Which should include br500, headwork, sheet/intake. Doing the block is not a bolt on, but I think the head would be close to qualifying as such. Most people who take their cars beyond the 500whp know what they are doing and can select their own parts for it and usually do. just my 02.
Mar 8, 2004, 11:29 AM
#69
Originally posted by davidbuschur
Well, from some of the responses and inputs I am seeing here maybe I will just wait and do the bottom end after more testing.
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Well, from some of the responses and inputs I am seeing here maybe I will just wait and do the bottom end after more testing.
I am back to being up in the air about what should be next, I will keep you guys informed as to what we do.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Many, many questions in the consumers minds!
Last edited by Zeus; Mar 8, 2004 at 11:31 AM.
Mar 9, 2004, 03:13 PM
#70
There are so many things to do to this car. It makes me want to go and buy another one just to keep close to stock for testing. Maybe when I sell the WRX that is what I will do.
Right now the head is done and being assembled. I am going to go ahead and bolt that on the car and do more testing. I am going to hold off on the shortblock by popular demand.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Right now the head is done and being assembled. I am going to go ahead and bolt that on the car and do more testing. I am going to hold off on the shortblock by popular demand.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 9, 2004, 09:58 PM
#72
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David, thanks for taking the next step and not going all out. I'm one of those Evo owners who is really interested in seeing what what your revised head and good set of cams will do for the car. My Evo will eventually see head work and a new turbo (small upgrade - I hate lag), but will probably never top 8K RMPs. Given that path, I'd be interested in your input on HKS 264s vs. 272s.
Providing this kind of info makes it much easier for us to know what gains to expect from these smaller upgrades. It also helps when planning an upgrade path and budgeting for the mods.
Before I started with EvoM I had never heard of Buschur Racing; now you are on a very short list of vendors I'll buy upgrades from. That was earned through the information and insight you've provided here.
Providing this kind of info makes it much easier for us to know what gains to expect from these smaller upgrades. It also helps when planning an upgrade path and budgeting for the mods.
Before I started with EvoM I had never heard of Buschur Racing; now you are on a very short list of vendors I'll buy upgrades from. That was earned through the information and insight you've provided here.
Mar 10, 2004, 07:55 AM
#73
wadzii, you post here sucks. Your opinion could have been made better without all the BS you put in there. BTW, I never said flowbench numbers don't mean ****. What I was trying to get across advertising the numbers don't mean anything, every flow bench is different, just like different brand dynos.
Erioshi,
Thanks for the additional input. Glad to hear we are on your short list!
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Erioshi,
Thanks for the additional input. Glad to hear we are on your short list!
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 10, 2004, 08:43 AM
#74
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Let's see some tests already dave! I'm curious to see what the gains will be on the stock block, because your not going to be able to use the high RPM valvetrain--unless you want to chance the Rods at 8K+. I get back to work in two months so I need something to buy!
Mar 10, 2004, 09:11 AM
#75
We have a car tied up on the dyno right now. The head is being o-ringed and assembled. Soon I hope.
The valvetrain will be most beneficial for high RPM's but if they springs are as weak as I think the car is going to gain across the board at high boost.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The valvetrain will be most beneficial for high RPM's but if they springs are as weak as I think the car is going to gain across the board at high boost.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com