The AEM/Motec/Microtech/Autronic thread
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 369
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Originally posted by porcupine
This is so typical of american thinking saying their products is far superior to others. While it may be true that this forum is a U.S based forum dedicated to the Evo8 it seems, it's still no excuse for bashing the non-U.S competitors products. If the AEM is so great, then so be it. Don't bash the others (it's such poor taste).
This is so typical of american thinking saying their products is far superior to others. While it may be true that this forum is a U.S based forum dedicated to the Evo8 it seems, it's still no excuse for bashing the non-U.S competitors products. If the AEM is so great, then so be it. Don't bash the others (it's such poor taste).
Why don't you try to avoid your own pre-concieved notions about American opinions and shut the **** up.
Now Im going to go eat 6 lb's of beef cooked in lard and shoot automatic weapons at starving immigrants from 3rd world countries. It will help spread democracy and freedom.
In Timeout
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
From: Kennesaw Ga
Also it depends on can the people tune or not? Al could not tune the computer he does flashes, could Shiv tune a AEM, you bet your *** he could. I am not starting **** just saying the product is only as good as the person using it.
Originally posted by rayhall
There are no cold start or air temp estimation table problems. The default values work with 95% of engine setups, and if they need adjusting you just do exactly that, it is after all a programmable fuel injection. We have many customers in Norway, Finland and Sweden who have no cold start or air temperature problems even at -20 C ( -0 F) or lower temperatures.
Forums can ruin a company reputation with post like this. Both Steve and myself work very hard to promote the Autronic product by being open and honest with people, and giving the best support we can. Please understand that with George and AL we have given both of them a lot of technical support to get their cars up and running. Far more then is required by others, and in response we get this type of criticism on a public forum where everything posted is generally taken a gospel.
One of the rules of this forum not to bash vendors without just cause. Both Steve Nichols and myself believe this is the case with these posts. If the forum moderators would like proof of all the support given and correspondence sent, then we are happy to supply this information to show just how hard we have tried the help these people. We can also provide any amount of emails from customers who have Autronic systems and have none of the problems they talk about.
Ray Hall.
There are no cold start or air temp estimation table problems. The default values work with 95% of engine setups, and if they need adjusting you just do exactly that, it is after all a programmable fuel injection. We have many customers in Norway, Finland and Sweden who have no cold start or air temperature problems even at -20 C ( -0 F) or lower temperatures.
Forums can ruin a company reputation with post like this. Both Steve and myself work very hard to promote the Autronic product by being open and honest with people, and giving the best support we can. Please understand that with George and AL we have given both of them a lot of technical support to get their cars up and running. Far more then is required by others, and in response we get this type of criticism on a public forum where everything posted is generally taken a gospel.
One of the rules of this forum not to bash vendors without just cause. Both Steve Nichols and myself believe this is the case with these posts. If the forum moderators would like proof of all the support given and correspondence sent, then we are happy to supply this information to show just how hard we have tried the help these people. We can also provide any amount of emails from customers who have Autronic systems and have none of the problems they talk about.
Ray Hall.
I am not bashing Autronic or you, but the support that I have been getting or actually trying to get from Steve..
Both of teh Autronics cars that we worked on, were up and running because of you. Thanks! You are the one that deserves all the props.
Back to the 2 cars: I got the first one running after YOU helped me with the +ve and -ve values. Thanks! Then, the car was pretty much tuned when we went to Steve for the dyno.
The second car: I was never given a reason why I was not emailed a base SMC map for the 4G63 Eclipse considering that you guys have a PnP board. If Steve told me that that he cannot get m eone, I would have created one. But Steve kept one saying that he will email it to me. It has bee 2 months, and I still hav enot gotten a 4g63 map from him. Again, I ha dto call you ( thank you) for the excellent support. But Steve does not like teh fact that I am bothering you. But without you, I would still be waiting on the maps from Steve.
The other thing. I ordered a Evo8 pnp in Sept, and I got an email that mine is here just several days ago. I had to find out from another Autronics dealer that the boards have been available from them all the time.
Again, this post is not AGAINST Autronic, but against the missing customer service for the product. I received numerous email from Steve saying that I am not supposed to call you, but you have been the only one that knows what is going on.
Again, I will still say that AEM has way better supprt for their product in THE US. I am sure that all your Autralia customers are happy with their product becaus ethey have you as support. If you were the one supporting the Evo8 board, us and many other copanies would be buying the product without any questions asked.
Again, thanks for you support. We have only one Autronic car left to finish, and I hope Steve can do the support on that one, otherwise we have to buy a new wiring harness for teh customer along with the AEM box.
George
Originally posted by DynoKing
Also it depends on can the people tune or not? Al could not tune the computer he does flashes, could Shiv tune a AEM, you bet your *** he could. I am not starting **** just saying the product is only as good as the person using it.
Also it depends on can the people tune or not? Al could not tune the computer he does flashes, could Shiv tune a AEM, you bet your *** he could. I am not starting **** just saying the product is only as good as the person using it.
Tuning is tuning: If the tuner get the proper balance of timing and air-fule, the car will mak eteh same power no matter waht system you used.
Al made a goo dpoint that he had only 10whp difference between his reflash and tyeh Autronic ECU. At high boost the Autronic did better because it eliminates the factory MAF sensor.
Believe me, if the SAME tuner uses the AEM, Autronic, Motec, etc, teh resulst will be the same, if all the features are same.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Brunei Darussalam
Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Hey look, a ****ing moron putting words in our mouth's. He never even made a statement about which is better. And regardless, we are driving Japanese cars with korean electronics, buying a standalone sold through an American company designed by guys who are from Europe....we are such imperialist ****ing bastards
Why don't you try to avoid your own pre-concieved notions about American opinions and shut the **** up.
Now Im going to go eat 6 lb's of beef cooked in lard and shoot automatic weapons at starving immigrants from 3rd world countries. It will help spread democracy and freedom.
Hey look, a ****ing moron putting words in our mouth's. He never even made a statement about which is better. And regardless, we are driving Japanese cars with korean electronics, buying a standalone sold through an American company designed by guys who are from Europe....we are such imperialist ****ing bastards
Why don't you try to avoid your own pre-concieved notions about American opinions and shut the **** up.
Now Im going to go eat 6 lb's of beef cooked in lard and shoot automatic weapons at starving immigrants from 3rd world countries. It will help spread democracy and freedom.
As far as having my own pre-conceived notions about Americans, I would not shut up. This is the internet, you do not own these forums.
Regards,
3rd World Country Immigrant (NOT !!!!), no thanks on the invite, :-), I wouldn't leave my country for anything.
Originally posted by 5StarSuzuki
Keep in mind you are in Australia. While the primary audience of evolutionm.net is in the US. Different time zones and expensive phone calls equals difficulty making contact. You may have great service, but if the AEM has near identical features (pluses and minuses for both units) why on earth would I purchase a unit with service thats 5000 miles away?
You have to understand that this is a forum to post one's viewpoints. Whether you agree with them or not, thus you can post your counter-opposing viewpoint.
EDIT: Shiv edited his post to take out his name calling of Al and George "internet tuners". I just thought that was abit humorous.
Keep in mind you are in Australia. While the primary audience of evolutionm.net is in the US. Different time zones and expensive phone calls equals difficulty making contact. You may have great service, but if the AEM has near identical features (pluses and minuses for both units) why on earth would I purchase a unit with service thats 5000 miles away?
You have to understand that this is a forum to post one's viewpoints. Whether you agree with them or not, thus you can post your counter-opposing viewpoint.
EDIT: Shiv edited his post to take out his name calling of Al and George "internet tuners". I just thought that was abit humorous.
If Ray was here in the US, I would not doubt supporting the Autronic products the way we support the AEM. Problem is not the product but the US support.
I can say one thing about the Al-Shiv argument : Al has the record for most HP on stokc engine, and most HP on the 3037s. Enough said...
Al is a great guy, we have met here in Atlanta. He knows ho wto tune, and his tuning make sgood power.
Shiv is a good tuner too, but I think he is a bit more conservative.
Shiv, Autronic is a great product. I have said that already. But I still have not gottem an explanation why our Evo8 board took 3 months to show up, and why for 2 months we never got a reply back for a Eclipse base map.
George
Originally posted by porcupine
I would not even attempt to defend myself to you (AMERICANS). I never made a statement on which is a better ECU because I have not tried AEM but I do have some experience with a few Autronics SM2 on a friends car. I would not even try to compare the two since different ECU will be good on different applications.
As far as having my own pre-conceived notions about Americans, I would not shut up. This is the internet, you do not own these forums.
Regards,
3rd World Country Immigrant (NOT !!!!), no thanks on the invite, :-), I wouldn't leave my country for anything.
I would not even attempt to defend myself to you (AMERICANS). I never made a statement on which is a better ECU because I have not tried AEM but I do have some experience with a few Autronics SM2 on a friends car. I would not even try to compare the two since different ECU will be good on different applications.
As far as having my own pre-conceived notions about Americans, I would not shut up. This is the internet, you do not own these forums.
Regards,
3rd World Country Immigrant (NOT !!!!), no thanks on the invite, :-), I wouldn't leave my country for anything.
both ECUs are great. The post was aimed at highlighting the features of the AEM, and pointing out the support problems at Autronic.
George
Re: Boost Solutions
Originally posted by Stevenich
George it is spelled "The". I just check my email logs and I sent you a map for the eclipse on 10/01/03. I also resent it on 10/03 because you said that you didn't get it.
George it is spelled "The". I just check my email logs and I sent you a map for the eclipse on 10/01/03. I also resent it on 10/03 because you said that you didn't get it.
So what is the reason for not getting 1 ECU for 3 months? I never got an explanation on that either...
Ray, thanks for the Eclipse file!
Originally posted by robi
Hey you post ****** I'm the guy who bought Also Al's board.... second gen customer... (AKA I BOUGHT A USED BOARD) I've posted questions and e-mails to both Ray and Steve been answered....! (THEY HAVE AND WILL MAKE NO MONEY ON MY ORIGONAL PURCHASE OF AN AUTRONICS PnP BOARD) Autronics or their importer OWES ME ZERO customer support. Steve e-mailed me when he saw I was on-line today, asked me to call him, gave me his telephone # and even answered. OK I know it's only Christmas so Steve probably has extra time to spend... He probably has a family that understands... Companies live and die by their reputations. I bought Autronics because all my Rally friends swear by (NOT AT) them. (you know the guys racing in mud, water, ice...cold start anyone..and desert environments. Also ALL standalone EMS systems for our American EVOs are STILL IN BETA TEST MODE!!!!! if you want to be an early adopter you are a de-facto test mule. Some are further than others some have better tuners out of the gate all do somethings better/cheaper than others. Do your research compare your options and remember that someones comments ANYones comments with an axe to grind must in some wise be self serving. Also someone selling a competing product falls under the same shadow.
Hey you post ****** I'm the guy who bought Also Al's board.... second gen customer... (AKA I BOUGHT A USED BOARD) I've posted questions and e-mails to both Ray and Steve been answered....! (THEY HAVE AND WILL MAKE NO MONEY ON MY ORIGONAL PURCHASE OF AN AUTRONICS PnP BOARD) Autronics or their importer OWES ME ZERO customer support. Steve e-mailed me when he saw I was on-line today, asked me to call him, gave me his telephone # and even answered. OK I know it's only Christmas so Steve probably has extra time to spend... He probably has a family that understands... Companies live and die by their reputations. I bought Autronics because all my Rally friends swear by (NOT AT) them. (you know the guys racing in mud, water, ice...cold start anyone..and desert environments. Also ALL standalone EMS systems for our American EVOs are STILL IN BETA TEST MODE!!!!! if you want to be an early adopter you are a de-facto test mule. Some are further than others some have better tuners out of the gate all do somethings better/cheaper than others. Do your research compare your options and remember that someones comments ANYones comments with an axe to grind must in some wise be self serving. Also someone selling a competing product falls under the same shadow.
Really, if you managed to get all the support from them, you are one happy customer.
I am 1/2 happy.
George
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
Steve Nichols, who is the US importer of Autronic, is based out of the US. In Kentucky to be precise. Same time zone as you east coasters, in fact. The point that Steve and Ray are trying to make, if I understand them correctly, is that while everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not everyone's opinions are based upon fact. Therefore, these opinions should be qualified before presented to a public forum such as this. In the end, it is very hard for the average buyer to separate fact from fiction (which is usually based upon a vendors marketing motives and/or their inability to use a given system as intended.
My 2c,
shiv
Steve Nichols, who is the US importer of Autronic, is based out of the US. In Kentucky to be precise. Same time zone as you east coasters, in fact. The point that Steve and Ray are trying to make, if I understand them correctly, is that while everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not everyone's opinions are based upon fact. Therefore, these opinions should be qualified before presented to a public forum such as this. In the end, it is very hard for the average buyer to separate fact from fiction (which is usually based upon a vendors marketing motives and/or their inability to use a given system as intended.
My 2c,
shiv
Just to add something to that fan issue. AEM has a failsafe machanism in teh software where if teh first fan fails or it is disconnected, the 2nd fan is ON ALL the time.