blackenedwings

Yup, I've done a lot of the same sort of research building my Evo as a time attack car. It will remain street tagged for a bit longer, but its quickly getting to be a bit silly as a street car.

ShepTrans is fantastic, I've had nothing but great experiences with them, and the Stage 2 5-spd is excellent. I blew up my 6-spd after a really hot weekend at Summit Point last year and have never looked back. CBRD is great too. Chad answered tons of my questions when I was looking for the "perfect" turbo for my build and the BBK-Full has been even better than I hoped. Through it all I've been especially lucky to have Hill McCarty and Agile Auto working on my car. They've done the installations, fabrication, tuning and setup to get the car where it is.

Like you said, emotionally and financially draining... but with good people involved in the project its been so much better. I'll be back on track this month to try out all the changes for this year.

acssa

iTrader: (2)

Lets leave Jesus out of this one, and focus on basics.
We found the FP 5r CAMS to work great for track... it gained loads of mid range 33 hp and only lost 10 whp at 8500rpm(kelford 280). the total was 525 whp... from WKW converted...and on a EVO9 they have a great record of not snapping.

For a circuit track car you need ball bearing turbo... and non of the turbos on your list will cope with 450WHP....

sparky

iTrader: (1)

I suspect that you are not fully informed, at least with respect to the CBRD BBK-Full turbo's potential on E85 fuel. As a matter of fact, 451 WHP(Dynojet) on E85 has already been done on a stock block IX with S2 cams, unported head and stock ECU(i.e. Aaron @ English Racing). Also Bryan (aka, Razorlab) has extracted over 440(Mustang) from a basically stock, BBK fitted IX on an Ethanol tune.

GraphiteEvo9

iTrader: (4)

Great looking car!

acssa

iTrader: (2)

sparky...
Read with the first part... Making 450 is one thing... making it and having it used on circuit racing is another thing all together....

Kidloco51

iTrader: (32)

Lets talk cams everybody....

All I here is GSC s2's (for the most part) but it sounds like GSC s1's may fit the bill nice.

Thoughts?

sparky

iTrader: (1)

Meaning, exactly?

sparky

iTrader: (1)

I was just saying that 450 is possible and has been done already with the CBRD BBK turbo on E85 fuel. I understand now what you are getting at. That just because two cars put down those numbers on a dyno that they may not be able to maintain that power level under track conditions and with a safe race tune.

I admit that the BBK, HKS 7460, etc. may be a bit smallish and probably would be fairly stretched to the limit to reach 450 consistently with a safe track tune given a stock longblock and E85 fuel. On 93 octane gasoline it wouldn't happen. But, on E85 with the right bolton parts, 420-430 might be a sustainable goal for such a car with a safe track tune. What do you think?

Personally, given a stock longblock, I would go with a slightly larger bolt on turbo to reach that power level at the track on E85. I would probably opt for a BBK-B, an HTA Green, or an FP Red.

blackenedwings

I'm curious why you think a circuit track car "needs" a ball bearing turbo. Ball bearing technology is great and can extend the life of a turbo and improve spool but depending on the size of the turbo it can bring its own set of problems. That's not even factoring in the additional price.

The turbo's listed will cope with 450 whp on E85. The key issues with the right turbo are...

1. Purpose for the car (for road racing you want the widest area under the curve possible for your peak power along with excellent spool and partial throttle characteristics)

2. Available fuel (if you are running 93 octane it limits your boost on a given turbo even more significantly for road race cars because of the extreme heat and extended WOT time they see)

3. Torque output (Regardless of the turbo/fuel combination if you are over 400 wtq on the stock bottom end you are playing with fire. Especially with a stock frame turbo where all the torque comes on in a few hundred rpms)


With those three things in mind, the OP knows the purpose and available fuel so he needs a turbo small enough to provide that target peak on E85 with the absolute largest area under the curve. Generally that means the selected turbo is "maxed" for that application. He is also going to want to keep the torque under 400 wtq to protect the stock bottom end. With all of those things in mind... the largest turbo I would consider for this application is an HTA Green. A BBK-B on E85 would definitely beat the 450 whp target number, but I'd be concerned it would be slightly too large for a stock block.

andrewzaragoza

iTrader: (6)

i also agree opting for a slightly larger turbo would be better for the stock block as it will yield a lower peak tq to keep the stock block happy. for the target hp i'd go with the bbk-b or the fp red. the op may also opt for ef4 and take advantage of the map beta testing program.

sparky

iTrader: (1)

Yeah the HTA Green, the BBK and I assume the 7460R are all capable of producing gobs of lowend and midrange torque on E85. As you state this can play havoc on a stock bottom end if pushed to the limit.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

I would run the lowest boost and the fastest spooler possible with the largest motor.

That said, 2.4 standard rod, S2s, 84mm HTA green, Magnus intake, 24-25psi on E85.

The other turbos are going to take more boost to get what you want and more boost is more heat. More heat is shorter life on parts.

blackenedwings

Well, once we get into building a motor for Time Attack, there is a whole new set of things to look at. The OP is sticking with stock block apparently, but yes, extra displacement does wonders on a TA car. It seems like a lot of the road racing shop cars use 2.2L or 2.3L strokers. There is obviously a lot of sides to the 2.4l vs 2.3l debate, but either way more displacement with less boost will pay off on the course. With 3-4 extra tenths of displacement I would definitely consider bumping the turbo up to a BBK-B or similar sized turbo. You can spool it as fast as a 2.0l would spool a BBK-Full and have a much higher top end.

If (when) I build my motor I'll be going with a built 2.3L and probably a BBK-B and making the switch to E85. Its a ways off, because frankly the car is more than powerful enough for my skill level now.

jid2

iTrader: (62)

Late to this thread - sorry.

I'd stay the hell away from FP turbos for the track. The CBRD's seem to do OK. But if you are looking to run with the big dogs and are comfortable with your car - which you seem to be, you'll want more than 450 whp. My car at 500 whp can hold with the Z06's, GT3RS's, Turbo 997's. But you'll want to build the motor and inherit all the gremlins that go along with making that much power or more. 500 whp seems to keep you even or a tad ahead of those cars, but if they have some go fast on them you'll need to start bumping up the power as well. For me I'm happy with 500.

My ETS manifold has been rock solid now for years of WOT on track - so don't worry about tubular manifolds. I think there are advantages to the Garret core or BW EFR's for a track car.

I'd talk to Chad at CBRD, and Geoff at Full Race.

But 450whp on e85 can work on a single pump, and a BBK and still be reliable....

metalsaber

iTrader: (9)

Have you considered running a little larger turbo and running on Pump 93? Only reason I say is you will end up with better fuel efficiency on 93 over E85. You should be able to run less 93 in the tank vs E85 which would save some weight. Plus most tracks have 93 and not E85. One less thing to pack up everyday before heading to the track.