Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

AutoXer, you need to grow up a little. Your comments were very immature and only degraded this good thread with trash talking. I never cheerled the xede in my post: I ADDED to the topic. First, I asked an honest question: Who is using UTEC on their Evo? I asked because it is my understanding that it is not even out yet, but I thought maybe someone is out there using a beta version who can report on it's benefits/problems, etc. Personally, the UTEC may end up being a better piggyback but I don't want to be the first to use it. Second, I just wanted to make sure that Evo owners understand that the Xede is tunable: not limited to 2 maps. All I did was describe a couple of basic functions of the xede so that people who don't know about it could learn something. Finally, my laptop has been a great tool for swapping maps on my EVO. If you don't plan on ever using a PC, why are you even making comments on this thread? GET A REFLASH FROM SOMEONE.

AutoXer

iTrader: (1)

I know no one is using the UTEC as do most people on this forum.

The XEDE can not hold more than 2 maps. That was the original point. I do use my laptop. I have an AutoTap. It would be nice to be able to switch maps with the flip of a switch. Why have the capacity to hold 2 maps in the XEDE? Because its convienient. That was the point... to simplify things. Booting windows and hooking up cables in not convienient.

If I got the UTEC tuned at a shop, I wouldn't need a laptop! I would have access to 5 maps at the flick of a switch.

Na-na na-na boo boo!

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Autoxer, Good points. However, I can garuntee you this: Someone out there is using the UTEC on an EVO right now if they are coming onto the Evo market THIS month. Testers and tuners often get beta versions in order to get feedback. Also the UTEC folks might chime in if they are paying attention to this thread.

By the way, I wouldn't mind having 5 maps available at anytime either. However, as far as premade maps are concerned, I only really use three: 91, 93, and 100. If I want to switch to the 93, which is not currently loaded, I go into my garage, open my glovebox plug the serial cable into my laptop and in about 1minute, I'm done. That is hardly inconvenient to me. I don't have to haul my laptop around all the time.

Good luck.

xtnct

iTrader: (33)

Ok... it is a few months later now. Do we know what the other differences between Utec and Xede are yet? There must be more than just the 5 vs 2 map storage space.

- How about resolution? Are they the same or is one greater?
- How about support for the product? Xede is only supported by one tuner to my limited knowledge, what about Utec?
- By what methods is boost supported by each unit?
- There are plenty of Xede maps out there, what about Utec maps?
- This Utec tuner thing - am I correct to assume it is some kind of data logger? Does Xede have a data logger built in?
- It appears like the Utec installation is more involved. Bigger box, hard to get wires though firewall, need to install a knock sensor? and a second utec dedicated 02 sensor? Xede is just a plug and play hook up, right?

Lets get a nice table of differences here between the two products to learn something and not get into personal bashings again...

modvp

iTrader: (13)

The tuner is different than the actual Utec "ecm". The utec "ECM" is attached to the Evo's ecu. On the other hand, the tuner is an additional unit that allows you to monitor knock and af (wide band) ratios etc.

modvp

iTrader: (13)

http://www.turboxs.com/txstuner.htm

^^ This is the link to the Utec tuner.

BigBoogieman

The Utec install is plug & play. In fact, I believe with the Xede you still have to move a wire from one harness to another, where the Utec is totally plug & play. I think the large size of the Utec is a good thing, because you actually mount the stock ECU to it and install it as one unit. That's why it's so wide, half of it is empty space where the stock ECU mounts. There are no wires to run thru the firewall, unless maybe to install the tuner?

With the Utec, you can optionally install a MAP sensor, which allows you to add boost to your data logs. The builtin data logging in the Utec is very nice (complete), although somewhat cheesy since you have to fiddle with Hyperterminal. I believe the Xede's data logging is very basic at this point, but will probably be improved in time.

The Xede seems to control timing via offsets from stock. Like at 50% load, 6000 RPM, I want +1.5 degrees over stock. With the Utec you have to put in absolute values. With me not really knowing what I'm doing, I would prefer the Xede's method instead of taking complete control of the timing.

It appears that boost and fuel are handled the same way by both.

The Xede currently has many default maps to download, the Utec only has a single map for the Evo so far. And I don't think the Utec's default map is very good either. I don't know how good the Xede's default maps are, but don't plan on running the default Utec map without a bit of tweaking. For example, I'm struggling with smoothing out the Utec's timing map now, because by default you have noticable roughness when the throttle crosses the threshold where the Utec takes over the timing, if you happen to be hovering the throttle at that point. Which I always end up doing, no matter where I move the threshold to.

The Utec comes with an optional bleed valve that allows you to run more boost, I don't think the Xede has something like this. Don't know how important that is, maybe if you plan on running more than 20 PSI or something.

The Xede's editing interface is a graphical Windows application, vs. the Utec which is in text mode, accessed via a terminal emulator (Hyperterminal). You know, like in the old days before they had mice & such? There are GUI editors for the Utec, and more to come, but it only comes with the text-mode interface. It's simple & easy to use, although a bit tedious. The only thing good about it is that this type of interface makes it easy for developers to create their own applications (editors, logging apps, etc.), something you won't likely see with the Xede. However the Xede has a much more sophisticated (GUI) editing interface. You can even do bizarre things like choose the input & output variables, etc. for each map. Also the Xede lets you choose arbitrary axis points for your maps. Like you can put a value in a map at exactly 1234 RPM. The Utec has these fixed (RPM is in increments of 250). I don't know how useful this stuff is to most people, but there seems to be some flexibility here that's not in the Utec.

Overall I believe the two units are basically equivalent, and I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

Shahul X

iTrader: (3)

look at the things MalibuJack does with his Utec, its amazing.....

-shahul

xtnct

iTrader: (33)

Very informative BoogieMan, thank you.
Anyone got links to what MalibuJack does with his Utec?

nothere

iTrader: (23)

he has a bunch of threads in the utec section of "engine management " forums scroll through the "forum jump"

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Wow.. Who dug up this old thread? I have to admit, the UTEC was a great choice for me.. I would have been disappointed with other products simply for the ability to play around with what the UTEC Has.. and I haven't even addressed the tuning aspects either..

In all fairness.. the UTEC and XEDE are fairly similar products, and function in a similar manner. Both have new upcoming features and both are flexible.. but I was turned off to the XEDE for a few reasons.. Installation was a bit more difficult, and in all honesty, I was turned off to Vishnu's lack of response to my information requests.. Otherwise its a very nice product that works as promised..

The UTEC however is top notch hardware, its well engineered, very easy to install, even easier to program (caveat being you need to feel comfortable using hyperterminal which I am)

I have written software for the UTEC, I've participated in beta testing data analysis software that rivals anything else out there, I'm created hardware specifically for the UTEC (In-Car PC and software) I even got the UTEC talking over bluetooth.. and How many ECU's can be tuned by a professional tuner over the internet? With the right software, the UTEC can..

Tuning it with their Tuner (wideband O2) product is fairly easy if your comfortable with tuning (if your not comfortable or knowledgable about tuning, any addon like this can do damage) It has several built-in outputs, 3 shift light outputs, (I have one as a shift light, the other I'm using for another function that I can't currently disclose at the moment)

I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to hardware, and I give everyone a fair shake.. TXS Has gone over and above what a normal tuner would to assist me in developing my "Toys". And that certainly has made a word of difference...

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Thanks for taking the time to write that BigBoogieman.

FWIW, there are a few things that can be done with the XEDE that many aren't aware off. First of all, you can remove your MAF and take stand-alone control of fuel if you desire. This is done by installing a 3 bar MAP sensor and using that for the Load (Y) axis in the XEDE's fuel table. The X axis is, as usual, RPM. Then you use the table to generate an absolute MAF output (based upon MAP and RPM). It's pretty easy to do if you have the time and patience. However, I don't see why one would want to do this as you would give up the stock ECUs ability to float between two fuel maps when conditions (intake temp, coolant temp, knock activity) change.

Absolute (stand-alone like) timing outputs can also be done with the XEDE by asking for an accompanying XEDEFlash which equalizes and flattens out both underlying timing maps in the stock ECU. Again, doing this is a step in the wrong direction as it, like the dual fuel maps, takes away the ability for the ECU to adaptively float between two timing maps. Especially fter seeing these adaptive fuel and timing maps at work on the roadcourse, either stand-alone XEDE features are best avoided for max power and reliability.

FWIW, The newest version of the XEDE firmware currently under development adds knock viewing, AFR viewing, closed loop fuel table mappability, high speed data logging (100 samples/sec) and the latest version of launch control. It's a pretty big step forward in XEDE functionality, IMHO.

Of course, there is many ways to skin a cat. That is, there are many engine management options on the market (AEM, Autronic, UTEC, XEDE, reflash, etc,.). This is what makes things so interesting. Just do your research and see which one(s) best suit your current and future needs. It's really hard to go wrong with any of the systems out there....

Just my 2c,
Shiv

SILVER SURFER

Wouldn't you also need a temperature sensor in the intake manifold? I mean 20PSI at 5K at 70 degrees F is a significantly different air density then say 20PSI at 5K at 120 degrees F.

Personally I don't believe that going speed density is worth while for most people, but I was just curious about the technical aspects here. Especially since all of the other speed density conversion systems I have seen incorporate a new MAP sensor and a manifold temp sensor.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Yep, you'd use one of the extra 0-5v inputs on the XEDE (Currently reserved for the o2 sensor) for temp input from a standard GM MAT sensor. Real easy to implement a straight-line temp compensation in the software. Just haven't explained how to do it since it's ends up being a downgrade from the current MAF set-up with the high and low det fuel and advance tables.

shiv

smanders

iTrader: (4)

What's the outlook on the release of these features? Days, Weeks, Months? Will the specs to the serial interface ever be released? The only thing that is keeping the UTEC in the runnings for me is the ability for anybody to write software to interface to it.