Hey guys,

Spec'ing up parts for my 2L build.

-Using stock crank and wanting to keep it strong and simple at the moment.
- Car is used for heavy street/road race and hill climb duties.
- It will most likely go through a few turbo packages that will be all based around mid range/under the curve style power with a very flat torque curve.
- I'll be running a stock head with S2's to start with, then throw on a ported head at a later date.
- Car runs almost exclusively on E70 and will have supporting mods for ~500whp.

So basically I'm chasing a nice light weight rotating assembly that will rev quick and handle 550whp/450tq.

This is my current build list.

- JE 85.5mm pistons, 10:1 comp 22mm pins.
- Carrillo pro-A beam rods, 150mm length.
- OEM BSE with a spun down shaft.
- S2's, Supertech springs / retainers.
- Tomei crank scraper
- Modded sump
- Kiggly HLA

Will these rods be suitable? Or should I look at others?

Cheers
Benny.

 

450ft/lb isn't a trivial matter for any 4cyl engine.

Carrillo states the following about their A-beam rods: "Typically, the Pro-A beam configuration is well suited for less demanding, more economical, high-performance, aftermarket applications. "

Carrillo also offers, "To decide which beam type is best suited for your application, please call our Technical Sales staff."

I'd suggest you defer to them for a sound analysis of the situation rather than give anyone here the benefit of the doubt about those particular rods: rods@cp-carrillo.com


One thing is for certain however, that being it's always far more economical to replace a set of rods than it is to replace an engine.

 

Agreed Ted, thanks for the reply.
Your comments came up a few times in my searching.
I've emailed them already, hoping some of the more experienced guys on here can comment.

I want to keep the rods under 600g though. Manley I's are to heavy, Aluminium have a limited service life it seems.

And I didn't want to spend $1k on Carrilo Pro-H's.

Perhaps R&R or Arrows.

 

My Oliver machined billet, custom I-beams checked in at 585g and $1100 USD, but I'll be able to will them to my grand kids. Keep in mind that just about any top-tier lightweight rod that isn't made from a Chinese blank typically starts around $900 USD and goes up from there. Pauter tend to be priced at the lower range of the scale, so you may want to check with them as well.

I completely empathize with the fact that rods that are both strong and lightweight cost, but then again, they fall into that category whereby spending a little now can save much more later. The same can be said for rod bolts too.

 

Good call, all stuff you need to be told.
What bolts do you recommend?

Would you also recommend the Carrillo Pro-H's in a 2.25L 4G64 w/94mm Manley crank?

 

If your gonna go cheap might as well run a scat or eagle h beam for under $400. Just double check that both ends are straight, round, and sized. The cheap rods are surprisingly good when you consider how much your spending. If you want more peace of mind then the next step really is a nice set for $1000+. steal will always be heavy, and you'll never notice rod weight from the drivers seat, so I wouldn't get too hung up about it.

I've used cheap rods, when budget wouldn't allow for a nice set. Always had great success with them, once the machine shop honed the holes. They always seem to be tight, big and small end. I've put lots of power to some of these and never had a failure. 1040HP SBC, 497WHP STI, 855HP 4.6L Ford. I abused those motors pretty good and I hear that they are all still alive and kicking. That $700 you save can buy a set of pistons. I wouldn't hesitate to roll the dice again and run a set in my next motor. The odds have been good so far.

 

Hmmm never noticed the weight?!
I thought the lower rotating mass would make aargh difference.

 

eagle rods are hit or miss, BUT i would never built an engine with eagle rods. From my experience i have not seen good things come from them. i would go with Manley I-beam turbo tuff which are for around $700. when it comes to engine internals especially the main components (rods and pistons) dont ever go cheap and take chances.

 

From the heaviest steel rod to the lightest steel rod you might be saving 40-50 grams. My brother swapped from steel rods to aluminum in his ford FE, no other changes, in preparation for a direct port kit. The weight saving per rod was huge. The track times were the same...until that kit. Maybe if he spun the motor past 8000 RPM we wouldve unlocked the magic, but it didn't happen. I'm sure at 12000RPM those aluminum rods would have made their presence known. How high are you gonna rev this 2.0?

 

Benny, the Carrillo Pro-H have a strong reputation in the industry. Nevertheless, I would consult Carillo first, and let them weigh in on the subject. Their recommendation is free, and you'll feel better about making an informed choice.

As for rod fasteners, ARP 2000 series 3/8" cap screws should be just fine in your application.


Actually, the data I have shows that with DSM/EVO rods, the range in rod mass from the lightest of the Carrillo H-beams to the Manley 'Turbo Tuff' spans 150+ grams. To what degree and when that might matter however is a different topic.

 

Capped at 8.5k simply due to the fact that ill never have a turbo large enough to be still making power at that RPM or higher.

Not interested in drag racing other than racing my mates occasionally on the street.

Looking at the Pauter X-Beams also.
MAP / Howard's rods are similar weight to TTuffs.

The Pauters are 85g per rod lighter, surely 340g across a rotating assembly combined with the weight savings on the pistons, BSE kit etc will make a big difference?

I'm just looking at it from a theoretical perspective. Have very limited engine building experience.

 

Any further comments on this?

 

i wouldn't bet on it.it' still way under a pound.

 

If it were my build I would shoot for strength and forget about weight. The money saved could go towards head porting, which would probably have a better HP return on investment.

It is your build, and you should decide where you want to spend. If you don't have much experience with engine building then you should experiment. If you want a motor with ultra light parts, build it, and check out how it feels. Keep in mind the more exotic things get the more the will cost. You will learn quick where the $ matters most.

 

Cheers mate, that's the plan.
Build this one tough and light, run it hard for a bit then sell it off and try again.

Staying with stock head for now to keep costs capped under 5k.