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Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?

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Old Feb 6, 2013 | 02:19 PM
  #1  
Biggy VIII's Avatar
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Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?

Its a built engine with short mileage. The knock becomes quieter when engine warms up, but still can be clearly heard. Rod bearings are like new, lifters are new "GSC Zero Tick Lifters". too much PTW clearance?


Last edited by Biggy VIII; Feb 7, 2013 at 10:45 AM.
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 10:44 AM
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Ok mates, its pity that no one could identify it by video, but anyway I decided to take the engine apart and find the root of the problem myself.

First the oil pan has came off. The oil was clean without any "gold" or debris. It seemed to me that I have seen some aluminium powder, but the rod bearings had no serious wear marks, so were the main bearings.

The next step was cam cover. No problems with cams, gears, rockers, lifters or valvetrain at all.

Than I took off the head and took the pistons out of the cylinders...




That is how the piston skirts (intake side) looked like after 6000km.




That is a 0.15mm feeler gauge. The piston easily slips in the cylinder.




That is how cylinder walls looked like:





The shop that made all the honing and boring service was told to make 0.7mm PTW clearance as this is a stock turbo daily-driver that never see any serious abuse.

I took a micrometer and an internal caliper and made some measurements...

PTW by cylinders:

1) 0.09mm - the only cylinder that gave the measurements that I expected.
2) 0.20mm
3) 0.20mm
4) 0.19mm

I was surprised:
Oil consumption was not terrible, about 1L/5000km.
Compression test showed 172psi +/-2 in all cylinders.
Leak test showed 0%.

The only thing that was bothering me is that terrible noise on cold startup and some of it when fully warmed up.


Hope that example and my experience will help somebody to diagnose his trouble sounds.


PS: Its a pity - my block was already in 86mm, so I have to buy a new one, as I am not a fan of sleeved blocks. Anyway I have already made up my mind and that will be 2.3L (manley +wiseco 1400hd) + stock Evo9 turbo daily driver for my wife ))

Attached Thumbnails Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?-1.jpg   Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?-2.jpg   Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?-3.jpg   Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?-4.jpg   Help to identify engine knock. Pistons?-20120415_195413.jpg  


Last edited by Biggy VIII; Feb 7, 2013 at 11:06 AM.
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 11:07 AM
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sounds more like you should go back to that shop and tell them off
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 11:16 AM
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the exact reason i didn't build my own. i sent it to Buschur and let them do it. for the $500 more to build it.... that's peace of mind that i wont have this happen.
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BURNALL_4
the exact reason i didn't build my own. i sent it to Buschur and let them do it. for the $500 more to build it.... that's peace of mind that i wont have this happen.
the shop that did all the honing job is a reputable company and had successfully worked for more then 20 years.

good for you that you have Buschur Racing that you can totaly trust your engine.

as for me, its quite opposite. it wouldnt happen if I did and double checked all the job by myself..

and that will be true for me, until Buschur or AMS open a shop over here ))
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Old Feb 8, 2013 | 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggy VIII
the shop that did all the honing job is a reputable company and had successfully worked for more then 20 years.

good for you that you have Buschur Racing that you can totaly trust your engine.

as for me, its quite opposite. it wouldnt happen if I did and double checked all the job by myself..

and that will be true for me, until Buschur or AMS open a shop over here ))
OH DAMN! i didn't realize that you were in Russia! haha sorry man
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Old Mar 10, 2013 | 11:52 PM
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you cant accurately measure PTW without a dial bore gauge.

you must mic the piston in a certain location or it wont be accurate either.

you mic the piston, then confirm it with a set of calipers also to compare.

you stick proper part on dial bore gauge, you measure, you confirm with mic,

you then measure the cyl wall, then you subtract the bigger number from the smaller and that is your PTW that number minus the piston size.
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Old Mar 11, 2013 | 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
you cant accurately measure PTW without a dial bore gauge.

you must mic the piston in a certain location or it wont be accurate either.

you mic the piston, then confirm it with a set of calipers also to compare.

you stick proper part on dial bore gauge, you measure, you confirm with mic,

you then measure the cyl wall, then you subtract the bigger number from the smaller and that is your PTW that number minus the piston size.
abolutely.

Next time I will do as much as possible myself.
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