AWD debunked and no better than FWD..
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AWD debunked and no better than FWD..
Take this with a grain of salt. I did.
The following article was found on Yahoo headlines, thought this would be an interesting discussion.
"Sure-footed all-wheel-drive handling." That's the kind of lingo you're likely to hear in car ads and marketing material, and it has prompted me to shout at televisions, print ads, and the occasional car-company rep: All-wheel drive doesn't help handling!
It's disingenuous to say or infer that AWD enhances cornering prowess, or that it'll help a driver avoid a fallen tree or dodge Bambi. When it comes to handling, all-wheel drive is overrated (not to mention heavy and gas-sucking), especially in foul weather.
"I'd rather have a Toyota Camry on four new snow tires than the best all-wheel-drive vehicle on all-season tires," said one tester who requested anonymity.
Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.
However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop. (Note to those from warm climes: Snowbanks are not puffy and cushiony.) The laws of physics mean a vehicle's cornering power is the job of the tires and suspension.
"In the snow, it is all about the tires," says automotive engineer Neil Hannemann, whose resume includes helping to develop the original Dodge Viper, creating a proof-of-concept vehicle for the original all-wheel-drive Chrysler minivan, and driving ice racers on frozen lakes. Having power to four wheels rather than two sounds like it would help the car handle, which is why you see those ads that infuriate me. But good tires beat AWD.
Some disagree, saying AWD helps bad-weather handling because it quells power on oversteer, the fishtailing rear-drive cars experience when a ham-footed driver is too rough on the accelerator. It is true that AWD is excellent at preventing the tail from stepping out under power. But this is not "improving handling." It's really aiding acceleration.
And it's true that some advanced AWD systems now on the market help the car turn a little bit if the driver is assertively pushing the accelerator; they do it by dragging the inside wheel and diverting more force to the outside wheel. But my experience, and that of the test drivers I consulted, found little more than a small benefit. Once the tires' grip limit is reached, no more can be created. (For nitpickers and engineers: Yes, more aerodynamic downforce will increase grip, but I'm talking about road-going vehicles at highway-legal speeds, where that kind of performance edge isn't really applicable.)
There are more advanced AWD systems on the horizon. These torque-vectoring differentials are advanced versions of the current systems that cause one or more tires to turn faster or slower. The goal of these systems is to harness the grip all four tires have to offer.
Even so, we're talking about minor improvements. If you're looking for the peace of mind in knowing that you'll be able to get home if an unexpected snowstorm hits, AWD may be a good choice for you. However, if you think that AWD will help your car better grip slippery corners or dodge an indecisive squirrel, you're sadly mistaken. A good set of snow tires is a better investment if you live where it snows frequently or if the highway department is poor at plowing roads.
"All the best [AWD systems and electronic-stability control] will still get beat by a good set of snow tires," Hannemann says.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-myth...210608212.html
The following article was found on Yahoo headlines, thought this would be an interesting discussion.
"Sure-footed all-wheel-drive handling." That's the kind of lingo you're likely to hear in car ads and marketing material, and it has prompted me to shout at televisions, print ads, and the occasional car-company rep: All-wheel drive doesn't help handling!
It's disingenuous to say or infer that AWD enhances cornering prowess, or that it'll help a driver avoid a fallen tree or dodge Bambi. When it comes to handling, all-wheel drive is overrated (not to mention heavy and gas-sucking), especially in foul weather.
"I'd rather have a Toyota Camry on four new snow tires than the best all-wheel-drive vehicle on all-season tires," said one tester who requested anonymity.
Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.
However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop. (Note to those from warm climes: Snowbanks are not puffy and cushiony.) The laws of physics mean a vehicle's cornering power is the job of the tires and suspension.
"In the snow, it is all about the tires," says automotive engineer Neil Hannemann, whose resume includes helping to develop the original Dodge Viper, creating a proof-of-concept vehicle for the original all-wheel-drive Chrysler minivan, and driving ice racers on frozen lakes. Having power to four wheels rather than two sounds like it would help the car handle, which is why you see those ads that infuriate me. But good tires beat AWD.
Some disagree, saying AWD helps bad-weather handling because it quells power on oversteer, the fishtailing rear-drive cars experience when a ham-footed driver is too rough on the accelerator. It is true that AWD is excellent at preventing the tail from stepping out under power. But this is not "improving handling." It's really aiding acceleration.
And it's true that some advanced AWD systems now on the market help the car turn a little bit if the driver is assertively pushing the accelerator; they do it by dragging the inside wheel and diverting more force to the outside wheel. But my experience, and that of the test drivers I consulted, found little more than a small benefit. Once the tires' grip limit is reached, no more can be created. (For nitpickers and engineers: Yes, more aerodynamic downforce will increase grip, but I'm talking about road-going vehicles at highway-legal speeds, where that kind of performance edge isn't really applicable.)
There are more advanced AWD systems on the horizon. These torque-vectoring differentials are advanced versions of the current systems that cause one or more tires to turn faster or slower. The goal of these systems is to harness the grip all four tires have to offer.
Even so, we're talking about minor improvements. If you're looking for the peace of mind in knowing that you'll be able to get home if an unexpected snowstorm hits, AWD may be a good choice for you. However, if you think that AWD will help your car better grip slippery corners or dodge an indecisive squirrel, you're sadly mistaken. A good set of snow tires is a better investment if you live where it snows frequently or if the highway department is poor at plowing roads.
"All the best [AWD systems and electronic-stability control] will still get beat by a good set of snow tires," Hannemann says.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-myth...210608212.html
"All the best [AWD systems and electronic-stability control] will still get beat by a good set of snow tires," Hannemann says.
Is it that one cannot fit a good set of snow tyres to a vehicle with AWD ?
Yahoo article, enough said.
Is it that one cannot fit a good set of snow tyres to a vehicle with AWD ?
Yahoo article, enough said.
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From: Thornton, CO & Pasadena, MD
I don't think where the article came from or where it was posted is a valid arugment. Would it be better to your liking if it came from the Onion or CNN, FOX, Dateline, or Car and Driver or DSport.
You take what the article is trying to convey and expand on it and either disprove it or agree with it.
You take what the article is trying to convey and expand on it and either disprove it or agree with it.
don't think the page got taken down, but the OP just had a bad link:
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-myth...210608212.html
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-myth...210608212.html
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Thread Starter
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From: Thornton, CO & Pasadena, MD
I don't need to address anything actually. I didn't write the arcticle just came across it during my daily browsing of the internet and thought it would make good discussion. If I was writing a report for school then my sources would matter to a certain point. In this case, on Evom they don't. If you want to grade me on this feel free.
Before I owned my evo8, I had numerous others cars to include a roush mustang, 2wd s10, integra and a wrx. The tire is definatly the most important factor for traction and grip to slow down. Wide tires and slick surfaces do not mix. I felt the wrx was the most capable to get me moving on any surface where as the rwd's we awful.
I would say either car with snow tires is a good winter vehicle. But awd is clearly better to get out of a sticky situation.
I would say either car with snow tires is a good winter vehicle. But awd is clearly better to get out of a sticky situation.
I would think this article's content is obvious to enthusiasts, no? While the choice isn't mutually exclusive, surely none of us in their right mind would pick the Evo's AWD system over a set of Nokian's in the snow?
The idea that 2WD + snow tires is better than AWD + all-seasons isn't news to anyone here, but it's probably worth relating to the general public. It's too bad they chose to go for the sensationalist title and straw-man arguments though.
If you read the article, you'll note that he never actually "debunks" AWD anywhere or even suggests that AWD is somehow flawed. He's debunking the idea that snow tires aren't necessary with AWD vehicles and lamenting the fact that AWD cars allow unskilled drivers to accelerate faster in slick conditions. All valid points, of course, but I guess they just needed a catchy and controversial title to get people to click on the story. Editors love when an article provokes people to anger and debate, because it results in more traffic. Just look at how people in this thread are eager to jump to the Evo's defense.
If you read the article, you'll note that he never actually "debunks" AWD anywhere or even suggests that AWD is somehow flawed. He's debunking the idea that snow tires aren't necessary with AWD vehicles and lamenting the fact that AWD cars allow unskilled drivers to accelerate faster in slick conditions. All valid points, of course, but I guess they just needed a catchy and controversial title to get people to click on the story. Editors love when an article provokes people to anger and debate, because it results in more traffic. Just look at how people in this thread are eager to jump to the Evo's defense.
Last edited by Construct; Mar 27, 2013 at 07:23 AM.
It's written by a guy that obviously doesn't know what AWD is for. Who buys AWD to avoid crashing into trees and a deer? I know I bought an AWD to avoid being stuck in the snow and traction, not to have "handling".