Low end Torque
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Joined: May 2002
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From: CA
Low end Torque
Hey guys,
I was starting to consider the VW R32 because of the low end the 3.2 NA provides and how sweet that would be for me since this is going to be my daily driver and only car.
I still think Im gonna get an Evo because of the way it handles and the power it has out of the box.
Now my question is what are my best options for making Torque in the low RPM range? I want a car that can pull strong from 2000 RPM and up. Ive heard that high LIFT cams help make TQ and that a 2.75in exhaust makes better power down low as well (as oppose to 3in+). Also would a better O2 housing (turbo elbow) help spool up alot? What turbo kit options are there (full boost as early as possible)? Is a stroker kit a realistic way to go (there is no replacement for displacement)? How will it compare to the STIs power band?
I hope to hear from alot of the tuners out there (especially the ones in CA)
Thanx
P.S. I did do a search but only found a few discussions on parts and not really overall low end Torque discussion.
I was starting to consider the VW R32 because of the low end the 3.2 NA provides and how sweet that would be for me since this is going to be my daily driver and only car.
I still think Im gonna get an Evo because of the way it handles and the power it has out of the box.
Now my question is what are my best options for making Torque in the low RPM range? I want a car that can pull strong from 2000 RPM and up. Ive heard that high LIFT cams help make TQ and that a 2.75in exhaust makes better power down low as well (as oppose to 3in+). Also would a better O2 housing (turbo elbow) help spool up alot? What turbo kit options are there (full boost as early as possible)? Is a stroker kit a realistic way to go (there is no replacement for displacement)? How will it compare to the STIs power band?
I hope to hear from alot of the tuners out there (especially the ones in CA)
Thanx
P.S. I did do a search but only found a few discussions on parts and not really overall low end Torque discussion.
I think a good turbo back (or catback and DP) will help you make low-end. Some people have experience low RPM torque loss after installing open-element intakes. Also, make sure you get your fuel map reflashed or piggybacked to lean it out a little. As far as low RPM torque vs. the R32, I'd be shocked if the Evo didn't FEEL that it pulled harder. From 1500-2800, the numbers might have the R32 ahead, but the Evo spools so fast (as you know, if you remember... 
) you will be at 3000 RPMs before you know it.
I originally was going to buy an R32, but it had been so delayed, and after test-driving the Evo, it was an easy choice.
) you will be at 3000 RPMs before you know it.I originally was going to buy an R32, but it had been so delayed, and after test-driving the Evo, it was an easy choice.
I really wanted the R32 early on too. But with the wait and the fact that I felt screwed by VW's poor service I pulled the trigger on the Evo. I'm glad I did since the Evo is much more receptive to modification than the R32 is/will be, especially on a cost basis.
A modified Evo, something along the lines of a Buschur stage 3 pulls hard but you will have to run above 3K rpm if you want stump pulling torque. Regardless it is pretty easy to drive in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic although I'm only getting 17-18mpg.
I have yet to do a highway mileage run.
A modified Evo, something along the lines of a Buschur stage 3 pulls hard but you will have to run above 3K rpm if you want stump pulling torque. Regardless it is pretty easy to drive in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic although I'm only getting 17-18mpg.
I have yet to do a highway mileage run.
Last edited by propellerhead; Mar 3, 2004 at 01:48 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
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From: CA
Great to hear from you Chris. Thnx again for the ride. Didn't you end up moving to the east coast?
Im glad to see Im not te onlt one that likes the R32. It defiantly wins in the street drivability. I am 90% sure I will go Evo once I FINALLY can afford it.
You wouldn't happen to know how running a 2.3 L stroker kit would change torque in the Low RPM's on a stock turbo. I figure if it makes full boost by about 3500 stock then with 2.3L it should be alot sooner, no?
Hows your Evo doin? What have you done since the Malibu meet?
Im glad to see Im not te onlt one that likes the R32. It defiantly wins in the street drivability. I am 90% sure I will go Evo once I FINALLY
can afford it.You wouldn't happen to know how running a 2.3 L stroker kit would change torque in the Low RPM's on a stock turbo. I figure if it makes full boost by about 3500 stock then with 2.3L it should be alot sooner, no?
Hows your Evo doin? What have you done since the Malibu meet?
Trending Topics
my evo revs up quick... engaging the turbo is quick, lil lag... i currently do 85% highway milage and i get about 22mpg.. im sure if i did 95% highway milage and granny shift it for a while gas tank, i bet i would get the mitsu's estimate of 26mpg
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Pittsburgh PA
its pretty simple with the 2 liter engine. The best way to gain torque to up the boost on such a small engine. therefor low end torque is kinda a catch 22. You need the turbo spooled for torque. Basically the faster your turbo can spool, the lower your torque curve begins.
Jeff
Jeff
I moved to VA - more $$, interesting work, crappy weather...
Anyway, if you go with a stroker, I hear the Tomei 2.2L is the way to go. Good luck!! Give RMR a call while you're at it - their rally cars live and die by their low-end torque. (And for those of you prepared to flame, I know they have anti-lag...)
Anyway, if you go with a stroker, I hear the Tomei 2.2L is the way to go. Good luck!! Give RMR a call while you're at it - their rally cars live and die by their low-end torque. (And for those of you prepared to flame, I know they have anti-lag...)
Yeah, there are too many "I know it all" A-holes on this site. You might know as much or more, but if you don't acknowledge it in the thread, they jump you... WEAK.
BTW, I talked to Rhys and Frank (their British Evo guru) about the build-up of the Evo VII and there is a lot more to it than anti-lag... Compression ratios, gears, cams, etc. all contribute to low-end pull.
BTW, I talked to Rhys and Frank (their British Evo guru) about the build-up of the Evo VII and there is a lot more to it than anti-lag... Compression ratios, gears, cams, etc. all contribute to low-end pull.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 301
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From: Pittsburgh PA
very true Chris, you gotta have your e-sword out at all times round these parts 
Most of the british guys aim for torque over HP. Which I think to be a very good goal. I know that the rally guys know that the gear ratio of the trans is probably the most important thing for em.
I think the turbo lag is kinda cool sometimes. I like to feel the power build like that... maybe im just weird.
Most of the british guys aim for torque over HP. Which I think to be a very good goal. I know that the rally guys know that the gear ratio of the trans is probably the most important thing for em.
I think the turbo lag is kinda cool sometimes. I like to feel the power build like that... maybe im just weird.
Originally posted by JeffWels
its pretty simple with the 2 liter engine. The best way to gain torque to up the boost on such a small engine. therefor low end torque is kinda a catch 22. You need the turbo spooled for torque. Basically the faster your turbo can spool, the lower your torque curve begins.
Jeff
its pretty simple with the 2 liter engine. The best way to gain torque to up the boost on such a small engine. therefor low end torque is kinda a catch 22. You need the turbo spooled for torque. Basically the faster your turbo can spool, the lower your torque curve begins.
Jeff
My EVO with the Vishnu Stage 1+ makes full boost @ 2700rpm (vs.3500stock). You can lower it even further by retarding the cams to -5 (vs. the -3 I have now) but the top end flattens out the further the cams go back. I am a gear higher everywhere because of the bottom end boost. Find someone with similar mods and take a ride, it will amaze you 