trying to decide on a turbo to achieve 400WHP & around 400 TQ on the Stock block with 98RON

want to make as much as i can "safely" on the stock block using 98RON fuel

options are:
FP Green DBB
FP Red DBB
CBRD BBK-B Ball Bearing

The reason iv included the FP red DBB is because i may look at a built 2.3 next year. With the red i think it may be lagger then the other options but with a 2.3L the lag will come back down while more room for power. but will the fp red be efficient with the stock block as thats what iv got a the moment.

mods are:

*Kelford tx272 L cams (10mm lift intake & exhaust) - this is the lower lift type you guys probably have the 11mm lift.
*Turbo back exhaust
*Curt brown stock ported exhaust manifold
*Intake
*4" intercooler core & custom piping
*1000cc dynamic injectors
*Link G4 plug in ECU
*Link MAP sensor
*Stock Block
*98RON

This is a weekend street driven car with the occasional track days so spool is quite important

though beating them WRX STI on the motorways and and capiable of running solid ET times on the strip is equally important

#NEEDS TO BE FAST... HUNGRY FOR STI

 

Having been through similar dilemma, committed to pump fuel spool, and OEM quality of performance and reliability
Bbk-b is hands down amazing turbo!!!

However, I just discovered new wonder-system:
ETS v-band GTX3076R with Tial housing and twin Tial waste gates.
It's "stock location" vband manifold pseudo twin scroll, vband turbo is single scroll Tial hot housing, Twin Dump tubes that can be recirculated or silenced
Vband downpipe with flex joint

It's loud when dumping boost, but performance is amazing for pump gas Evo:
25-26psi will yield 430-450whp on Mustang, safe track tune.

Track as in 20-30min track day driving full throttle non stop.

Workmanship, serviceability, every aspect of quality and performance matches and perhaps exceeds Full Race EFR systems.

 

iv actually purchased the FP green 7 weeks ago but they have not even began to build it yet!!! because of that i can change between the green red and black if i wished and thats what made me consider the red. There estimated time for the turbo is 3-4weeks iv waited 7 weeks.

I'm almost tempted to cancel the order and try CBRD BBK-3B

i will have a look at that, sounds very expensive though haha, i see people on here already saying how expensive the FP DBB turbos are well for me i still have to pay shipping, GST , and duty on top of that. iv also opted extra for coated, ported , MHI housing and Green compressor wheel. once landed its going to cost me $3500USD!

 

I have the DBB Red on the stock 2L block and its a great sized turbo for a modified 2L and even better for the 2.3L.

I have pushed my setup to 470/380 according to Virtual Dyno on 98 Ron at 27 psi. Now at 31 psi it is powering over the ACT HDSS clutch and I have an Exedy Triple to swap in soon. I am thinking it is closer to 500/400 now.

I am pretty much have all the major bolt ons you can put on (see signature) and am very happy with the performance. My evo does fantastic at the Hockenheimring and Nurburgring and has been at these power levels for over 5 years. I tune myself so I am able to tweak as necessary and that makes a huge difference in your longevity and goals.

I will say I ran into interesting things with oil from the turbo. At first I thought I blew the seals on the turbo because I was getting some oil seapage in the compressor housing and some smoke at WOT. After A LOT of research, compression tests and talking with FP I gained understanding that the FP DBB Turbos do not have the traditional oil seal on the wheel shafts as Journal bearings do. Rather they have a gas ring ( think of a gas pressurized pocket) that does the sealing and the only thing that will physically compromise the seal is excessive shaft play. It seems the DBB turbos are more sensitive to crankcase pressure and the gas seals are easy to defeat which allow oil to seap through. I played with several different catch can setups until I finally found one that worked and haven't had any issues since. There are some great threads on here about crankcase pressure that indirectly solved my issues with the same principal concept.

 

forget the green. the 3b does everything better than it. better transient response, more power, and with less turbine pressure. real question is 3b vs dbb red. they are interesting to compare. 3b has a 57 mm comp inducer and 55 mm turbine exducer while the red has 55 mm comp inducer and 59 mm turbine inducer. there's obviously much more to it than those two measurements, but its an interesting starting point. my bet is that the 3b will win in transient response but the larger turbine and lower turbine pressure of the red will allow for more peak power, especially on pump.

if a 2.3L is in your future and you don't need the ultimate in transient response, the red might be the better bet.

 

thanks guys for your help.

FP green - all iv ever heard is great things from this turbo

FP red - some people love it, others not so much and prefer to go with a green, black or bbk.

FP turbos in general iv heard great things but also read a few people having oil problems with them.

BBK - doesn't sell quite as much turbos as FP so i dont see as many people choice bbk over FP but i also have not seen a single person mention issues with them and very satisfied.


because iv my purchase if with FP at the moment the BBK is out of the question. I'm prepared to wait another 2 weeks for my turbo and at the moment they have got me down for the green. otherwise I'm pretty keen for the BBK 3B I'm just worried CBRD will make me wait just as long

 

I love my Red paired with a 2.2L, I'm happy I skipped the Green. The spool feels damn near factory, and it pulls steady to the top of my power band.

 

problem is i can't promise i will have a 2.3 but if i keep the car long enough I'm sure a 2.3 will find its way into my engine bay. :/

i think the green is a better option now but the red may be the answer when i have a 2.3. on another note I'm not prepared to buy a green now and then spend the same money again to change to a red.

i suppose the BBK-3B flowing at 56-57LB in-between the green and red might be a good idea, they do advertise that it spools close to the BBK full after all. some have said 250rpm slower.

 

FP Red is one of the best paired turbo's on a 2.0/2.3, not much lag, DBB 100% reliable and is a 9 second turbo on a properly sorted car.

 

when would you say the red will see say 25psi ? i had a EF3 similar size to the red which reached 20psi at 4800rpm... far to much lag which is why the red worries me.

TSCOMP says - 4200rpm & FP says 4500rpm before it reaches peak boost on a 2.0

does the red need to run more boost to reach its efficiency compared to the green ?

what do you have to say about the Green as a turbo ?

 

I have a journal bearing green..I love it..Should be retuned this weekend with the cams springs etc..Hoping for good numbers..Ive never been let down by my turbo or tuner..Great choices any which way you decide...Justin

 

NZevo8

I think that you are going to miss big time if you skip the BBk-B:
Although personally I am enjoying it on a 2.3, I also own an Evo 2.0 with HKS, and had an HKS on 2.3, and had a GT3076R on 2.3, and have spent considerable time considering the perfect balance in spool, midrange power and response, and top end capability.

In NZ you have 98/100 fuel at the pump, about 93 RON/MON in USA: BBk-B is so responsive that it rivals HKS on any engine (2.0 or 2.3)but once you can put a little extra timing into the MAP because you have higher octane fuel, it is an amazing combination of spool response and top end.

If you wanted best tarmac rally turbo on 2.0 pump fuel, I would suggest HKS 7460.
But if you want to have some of the Tarmac Rally, Drag-Racing , and Daily Driver all in one, than BBK-B!!!

FP are so much slower to spool, its not even a competition.
Ceramic Ball Bearings in FP DBB turbos leak oil into the intake tract..there are numerous threads on EvoM discussing it.
CBRD uses Garrett DBB centre cartridge and have no oil-passing issues.

But for me, the amazing balance in response, spool, and ultimate power, is what won me over, and continues to amaze me.

Few use CBRD, its more of a boutique item: its not heavily marketed, advertised. It is without doubt, a superior quality product: before I got my BBK-B I met ~10+ racers and ensured long-term reliability was proven, as well as amazing performance.

 

I have FP Red Ball Bearing & it performs great

 

getting some good feedback with all 3 turbos haha choice is tuff :/

im not sure why but for some reason when i compare the two the bbk looks better quality have not idea why maybe they just took a better picture then FP.

i was so close to buying a BBK-B but i could not find a supplier that would allow me to pay with paypal and easy to purchase though the site, most of them required email and when i did they would not reply or would not discuss all my questions and just drop out of contact.

FP would not reply to email as well. but it was easy to buy from there site. which i just took a chance at and they replied soon after my funds went though. they still have not built my turbo though that i ordered on 3/9/14 !!!

I'm getting tempted to pull the plug on FP and try CBRD. but after waiting so long you just dont know it could be ready tomorrow or it could weeks to come, i just dont know. CBRD estimates 3-4 weeks ( same as FP ) but for all i know CBRD may take just as long and il have to wait again !

 

Green also is a great turbo but lacks the top end of the Red, why get the Green because you know you will want more power later, the Red has more than enough.