Notices
Evo Engine / Turbo / Drivetrain Everything from engine management to the best clutch and flywheel.

Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 03:01 PM
  #1  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers

My car has been smoking excessively since I put in the new motor. A couple of facts about my setup are list below.

A very reputable show rebuilt the lower end with wiseco 1400 9.0:1 pistons, R&R rods, and a 94mm K1 crank.
The cylinder head was completely redone by GSC when they CNC'd it. S3 cams installed with all supporting hardware.
Turbo setup is a forward facing twin scroll 6466 with the oil feed coming from the oil filter housing. I use fp's oil feed line kit with their inline filter and the return is -12 to an ams pan.
I originally had a Frontline valve cover with two -10 lines going to VTA catch can setup. I now have a factory valve cover again with two -10 lines (valve cover tapped to 1/2, not the smaller press in fittings). Again going to VTA catch can.

Compression numbers are: 162psi 165psi 165psi 165psi for cyl 1-4 (operating temp and injectors unplugged)
Leak-down numbers are: 90/83, 90/87, 90/87, 90/88 => 8%, 3%, 3%, 2% cyl 1-4 (operating temp and injectors unplugged)

Fuel is primarily E80-85. 93 is used once in a while

I use Brad Penn 20w-50 exclusively

The hardest the car has been pushed so far is during tuning and all pulls done in third gear to 8500 rpm. Car sees as much as 48psi tapering to 43psi and has made 850+ using virtual dyno.

Log shows the car is knock free throughout the entire power band. During tuning, I believe if my memory serves me right, I saw 2-3 counts of knock for approximately 200rpm one or two times but that was tuned out immediately.

I have attached some pictures of the plugs for reference. Pictures with ground tips pointing to 11 o'clock are cylinders 1 and 2 left and right and ground tips pointing to 1 o'clock are 3 and 4. Picture of all four plugs are 1-4 left to right.

I notice it is worse when the engine is hot. It is hard to tell but it does not look like it smokes when boosting. I believe it is the worst when at idle and decel.

Hopefully someone can chime in with some help
Thanks for looking
Attached Thumbnails Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers-img_3385.jpg   Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers-img_3386.jpg   Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers-img_3387.jpg   Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers-img_3388.jpg  

Last edited by nismo3183; Jun 23, 2017 at 04:55 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 03:26 PM
  #2  
LetsGetThisDone's Avatar
EvoM Guru
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 15,973
Likes: 1,629
From: Las Vegas
Either valve seals or turbo. If it's the turbo, it's likely the VTA catch can setup isn't getting rid of enough crank case pressure.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 04:52 PM
  #3  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone
Either valve seals or turbo. If it's the turbo, it's likely the VTA catch can setup isn't getting rid of enough crank case pressure.
For reference, the valve seals are the Viton valve seals that GSC sells and installs in their cylinder heads.

Compressor housing and intercooler piping are bone dry. Turbine housing and downpipe are oil free as well.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 05:14 PM
  #4  
RightSaid fred's Avatar
Account Disabled
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 714
Likes: 22
From: in a garage
If it's a new build and has always smoked then maybe the block has been honed wrong.


If you don't have a proper PCV setup , you'll get fuel contaminating the oil then you'll get more problems.

Last edited by RightSaid fred; Jun 23, 2017 at 05:22 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 07:35 PM
  #5  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by RightSaid fred
If it's a new build and has always smoked then maybe the block has been honed wrong.


If you don't have a proper PCV setup , you'll get fuel contaminating the oil then you'll get more problems.
Have you ever seen a better pcv system on a forward facing setup?
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2017 | 09:28 PM
  #6  
barneyb's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,902
Likes: 151
From: Grand Island, NE
An extremely high power engine is not ever going to act like a sedate Corolla engine. They are two different things.

Last edited by barneyb; Jun 23, 2017 at 09:34 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 04:46 AM
  #7  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by barneyb
An extremely high power engine is not ever going to act like a sedate Corolla engine. They are two different things.
I never said it would. I have never seen even heavily modified Evo's smoke like this.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 11:08 AM
  #8  
4G63_EVO's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 721
Likes: 46
From: Pasadena CA
how much smoke we talking? Got a video?
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 11:51 AM
  #9  
mines5's Avatar
Evolved Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 868
Likes: 23
From: Streets of willow
"VTA catch can setup isn't getting rid of enough crank case pressure."

That's your problem. Unhook one of the catch can lines and go for a ride.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 12:26 PM
  #10  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
I disconnected both lines from the catch can and let the engine warm up. I notice some crankcase ventilation from the lines but it doesn't feel excessive at all. Once the engine oil was somewhat warm I get smoke.

Pulled plugs and immediately noticed smoke from cylinder 1. Cylinder 1 had about 1 tsp of oil in it . Did a compression test and leak down test and the results are the same as the first post. The oil in the cylinder could be giving me higher results. This isn't looking too good.

Last edited by nismo3183; Jun 24, 2017 at 12:41 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 04:36 PM
  #11  
mines5's Avatar
Evolved Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 868
Likes: 23
From: Streets of willow
Oil on plugs. You know now what is wrong. The worst feeling ever.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2017 | 06:31 PM
  #12  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
I'm going to do a compression test with the motor cold and see if the numbers are really close. If the compression is really close I'm going to assume rings are good. I'm going to replace the seals and see if that does anything.
Maybe I'm being a little hopeful but it's worth a shot of the compression numbers line up cold/hot.
Reply
Old Jun 25, 2017 | 12:42 AM
  #13  
mines5's Avatar
Evolved Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 868
Likes: 23
From: Streets of willow
Just a thought. Did you check the oil level, over fill perhaps?
Reply
Old Jun 25, 2017 | 05:16 AM
  #14  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
I did check it. I actually drained and filled it and filled it up in between the low and high mark. It's an ams pan too
Reply
Old Jun 25, 2017 | 12:49 PM
  #15  
nismo3183's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Here are the results of compression and leak down again. Leak down was done warm with no oil in the cylinders. This time I have cold, cold with a cap of oil in the cylinder, and hot for the compression test.
Attached Thumbnails Excessive smoke with good compression and leak-down numbers-img_3395.jpg  
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:48 PM.