Oh no, I see smoke! Thoughts?
May 5, 2019, 02:04 PM
#1
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Oh no, I see smoke! Thoughts?
Evo IX MR, 99,899 miles
So I have noticed the past few weeks that on startup, my car is A.) puffing white smoke out on startup, and B.) shooting what appears to be oil or possible unburnt fuel all over my garage floor. I see the most smoke on a "cold start" and every subsequent start appears to be smokeless (though if I get really close, I can see some smoke very faintly). Standing behind the exhaust though, and you can almost feel "wetness" if you put your hand by it.
I have attached a video (
) to demonstrate, please ignore the dreadful noise, that is NOT how my car sounds, but my camera audio is messed up. Also, I could be colorblind, but the smoke appears to be WHITE and not BLUE.
White smoke has me thinking coolant, but I don't really appear to be losing any that I can see. Also, the car performs fine. I know the other possibility could be valve seals.
How can I determine what's going on? Pull the exhaust manifold and see if it's wet?
Obviously it can be hard to diagnose something like this over the internet, but I will try to provide as much info as possible to anyone with any good suggestions.
Things to note:
1.) I am straight piped, but this hasn't been an issue for the past year or so.
2.) I recently installed an STM oil cooler (I don't *think* this was an issue before then, but it was winter and the car obviously would have some "smoke" from the exhaust in the cold weather)
3.) I am on e85. I believe the issue is the same on 93 and E.
4.) The car is running SD, Tomei 270 cams, and stock springs/retainers/block, etc. It has been running this setup for about 2500miles.
5.) A compression test was done maybe 1500 miles ago and all 4 cylinders were within 15% of each other. Leakdown was good as well (I'm not saying that this couldn't have changed, just adding it in).
So I have noticed the past few weeks that on startup, my car is A.) puffing white smoke out on startup, and B.) shooting what appears to be oil or possible unburnt fuel all over my garage floor. I see the most smoke on a "cold start" and every subsequent start appears to be smokeless (though if I get really close, I can see some smoke very faintly). Standing behind the exhaust though, and you can almost feel "wetness" if you put your hand by it.
I have attached a video (
White smoke has me thinking coolant, but I don't really appear to be losing any that I can see. Also, the car performs fine. I know the other possibility could be valve seals.
How can I determine what's going on? Pull the exhaust manifold and see if it's wet?
Obviously it can be hard to diagnose something like this over the internet, but I will try to provide as much info as possible to anyone with any good suggestions.
Things to note:
1.) I am straight piped, but this hasn't been an issue for the past year or so.
2.) I recently installed an STM oil cooler (I don't *think* this was an issue before then, but it was winter and the car obviously would have some "smoke" from the exhaust in the cold weather)
3.) I am on e85. I believe the issue is the same on 93 and E.
4.) The car is running SD, Tomei 270 cams, and stock springs/retainers/block, etc. It has been running this setup for about 2500miles.
5.) A compression test was done maybe 1500 miles ago and all 4 cylinders were within 15% of each other. Leakdown was good as well (I'm not saying that this couldn't have changed, just adding it in).
May 5, 2019, 02:55 PM
#2
Well, may not be a serious issue. Great to hear you had a leak down & the compression test done
Being from your area, humidity could be an issue. Rain & humidity in your area?
Do you store the EvO outside?
Maybe what youre seeing is just heavy condensate & spitting black carbon during startup?
Just my .02
Being from your area, humidity could be an issue. Rain & humidity in your area?
Do you store the EvO outside?
Maybe what youre seeing is just heavy condensate & spitting black carbon during startup?
Just my .02
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Welcome2GoodBur (May 5, 2019)
May 5, 2019, 03:05 PM
#3
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
So my optimistic part of my brain says could certainly be that, as it’s kept in a garage all the time so it could just truly be a “cold start” smoke. My only real concern is it’s shooting out oil/fuel and the AFR is at 14.9, so it’s not running rich. I also noticed slight (barely visible) smoke after letting it sit for an hour outside just now at a car show.
I can’t tell if it happens at WOT or at idle / at a stop light; if it’s happening at either of those conditions I can’t see it.
I could be a bit paranoid, but obviously anytime something “changes” on our cars, especially on my higher Milage engine, I get worried ha
I can’t tell if it happens at WOT or at idle / at a stop light; if it’s happening at either of those conditions I can’t see it.
I could be a bit paranoid, but obviously anytime something “changes” on our cars, especially on my higher Milage engine, I get worried ha
Well, may not be a serious issue. Great to hear you had a leak down & the compression test done
Being from your area, humidity could be an issue. Rain & humidity in your area?
Do you store the EvO outside?
Maybe what youre seeing is just heavy condensate & spitting black carbon during startup?
Just my .02
Being from your area, humidity could be an issue. Rain & humidity in your area?
Do you store the EvO outside?
Maybe what youre seeing is just heavy condensate & spitting black carbon during startup?
Just my .02
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MinusPrevious (May 5, 2019)
May 5, 2019, 05:44 PM
#5
My concern would be it smoking after sitting for an hour. That means there's a chance it's not condensation. The drips should have no smell, if water. They should also feel like...er ...water 
I occasionally have condensation on start up. It sometimes cleans carbon deposits from the exhaust, spraying black on the garage floor and (oops) door. That's what yours sounds like. Except for the smoke after sitting for an hour. Unless it's really cold there......?
I occasionally have condensation on start up. It sometimes cleans carbon deposits from the exhaust, spraying black on the garage floor and (oops) door. That's what yours sounds like. Except for the smoke after sitting for an hour. Unless it's really cold there......?
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Welcome2GoodBur (May 5, 2019)
May 5, 2019, 06:59 PM
#6
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Well the i was planning to pull the head this winter possibly...just to clean it up, put in head studs, retainers, springs etc. I never upgraded anything because the cams are mild, but with almost 100k on the odometer it wouldn’t hurt to give her a little loving.
My concern would be it smoking after sitting for an hour. That means there's a chance it's not condensation. The drips should have no smell, if water. They should also feel like...er ...water
I occasionally have condensation on start up. It sometimes cleans carbon deposits from the exhaust, spraying black on the garage floor and (oops) door. That's what yours sounds like. Except for the smoke after sitting for an hour. Unless it's really cold there......?
I occasionally have condensation on start up. It sometimes cleans carbon deposits from the exhaust, spraying black on the garage floor and (oops) door. That's what yours sounds like. Except for the smoke after sitting for an hour. Unless it's really cold there......?
May 5, 2019, 08:25 PM
#7
I agree with Kaj.
My guess is the white smoke is condensation from cold pipes. The black oil drips are condensation that made contact with your exhaust pipes and washed all the rich fuel buildup from the inside walls. I would worry if your engine and pipes are hot and it's still doing the same thing.
My guess is the white smoke is condensation from cold pipes. The black oil drips are condensation that made contact with your exhaust pipes and washed all the rich fuel buildup from the inside walls. I would worry if your engine and pipes are hot and it's still doing the same thing.
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Welcome2GoodBur (May 6, 2019)
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May 5, 2019, 08:47 PM
#8
Well the i was planning to pull the head this winter possibly...just to clean it up, put in head studs, retainers, springs etc. I never upgraded anything because the cams are mild, but with almost 100k on the odometer it wouldn’t hurt to give her a little loving.
If the car only smokes at startup and not during decel, I'd say you are fine until other signs start popping up such as smoke during other times and/or oil level dropping. The only exception I'd say is if it has an obvious oil burning smell.
For safety sake, you can check the the turbo where the air inlet, j-pipe, and downpipe attach. Look for any signs that oil is leaking form the turbo, pooling up, then getting spit out on start up. Typically that would also smoke during acceleration, but it's free, so may as well.
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Welcome2GoodBur (May 6, 2019)
May 6, 2019, 07:19 AM
#9
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Dammit kaj, you’re supposed to say “yes yes pull the head what are you thinking” haha.
Glad to know it may not be as bad as I had thought.
I did just put the new oil cooler on and replaced the oil pan as it got a bit rusty, so there was some oil around the area but it’s since been cleaned.
For the past year or so there has been some “moistness” around the exhaust manifold where it meets the head, so I’ve kinda been waiting for something to happen to give me the excuse to look into it further.
As far as maintenance, I’m doing 3k oil changes ( maybe even less with e85 now), fluids were all changed within 10k, etc, so I’m fairly confident something happening won’t be from neglect.
I always appreciate the answers and feedback!
Glad to know it may not be as bad as I had thought.
I did just put the new oil cooler on and replaced the oil pan as it got a bit rusty, so there was some oil around the area but it’s since been cleaned.
For the past year or so there has been some “moistness” around the exhaust manifold where it meets the head, so I’ve kinda been waiting for something to happen to give me the excuse to look into it further.
As far as maintenance, I’m doing 3k oil changes ( maybe even less with e85 now), fluids were all changed within 10k, etc, so I’m fairly confident something happening won’t be from neglect.
I always appreciate the answers and feedback!
Meh. 100K is nothing for these motors, as long as routine maintenance is done. You can do springs/retainers with the head on the car. Head studs aren't really needed unless you are pulling the head for another reason or expect a mishap with a high HP tune. The guides last for eleventy billion miles. If (IF) your problem is valve seals, then yeah.. the head has to come off.
If the car only smokes at startup and not during decel, I'd say you are fine until other signs start popping up such as smoke during other times and/or oil level dropping. The only exception I'd say is if it has an obvious oil burning smell.
For safety sake, you can check the the turbo where the air inlet, j-pipe, and downpipe attach. Look for any signs that oil is leaking form the turbo, pooling up, then getting spit out on start up. Typically that would also smoke during acceleration, but it's free, so may as well.
If the car only smokes at startup and not during decel, I'd say you are fine until other signs start popping up such as smoke during other times and/or oil level dropping. The only exception I'd say is if it has an obvious oil burning smell.
For safety sake, you can check the the turbo where the air inlet, j-pipe, and downpipe attach. Look for any signs that oil is leaking form the turbo, pooling up, then getting spit out on start up. Typically that would also smoke during acceleration, but it's free, so may as well.
May 6, 2019, 09:27 AM
#11
Meh. 100K is nothing for these motors, as long as routine maintenance is done. You can do springs/retainers with the head on the car. Head studs aren't really needed unless you are pulling the head for another reason or expect a mishap with a high HP tune. The guides last for eleventy billion miles. If (IF) your problem is valve seals, then yeah.. the head has to come off.
If the car only smokes at startup and not during decel, I'd say you are fine until other signs start popping up such as smoke during other times and/or oil level dropping. The only exception I'd say is if it has an obvious oil burning smell.
For safety sake, you can check the the turbo where the air inlet, j-pipe, and downpipe attach. Look for any signs that oil is leaking form the turbo, pooling up, then getting spit out on start up. Typically that would also smoke during acceleration, but it's free, so may as well.
If the car only smokes at startup and not during decel, I'd say you are fine until other signs start popping up such as smoke during other times and/or oil level dropping. The only exception I'd say is if it has an obvious oil burning smell.
For safety sake, you can check the the turbo where the air inlet, j-pipe, and downpipe attach. Look for any signs that oil is leaking form the turbo, pooling up, then getting spit out on start up. Typically that would also smoke during acceleration, but it's free, so may as well.
May 6, 2019, 02:51 PM
#13
Are you talking about valve stem seals? If so those can be replaced with the head on, I had those pop up before running the super tech duals cause was running the incorrect ones. I then switched to the vitons with gsc behives never had a issue again. If your talking about some other type of seal then I apologize.
May 6, 2019, 03:38 PM
#14
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
That 100% looks like typical condensation. It becomes more noticeable with SD (vs a MAF tune) because the car has to run rich in order to idle well and be somewhat drivable when cold on SD with the stock ECU. What you're seeing is not cause for any kind of tear down, especially since you have verified compression and leak down to be good, and the engine is not consuming coolant and doesn't have evidence of coolant in the oil.
Bad valve seals sometimes cause white smoke, but it's usually blue and it very distinctly smells like burning oil. Coolant will also have a distinct sweet smell to the exhaust, which you would certainly smell if that amount of steam was due to coolant.
Bad valve seals sometimes cause white smoke, but it's usually blue and it very distinctly smells like burning oil. Coolant will also have a distinct sweet smell to the exhaust, which you would certainly smell if that amount of steam was due to coolant.
May 6, 2019, 05:39 PM
#15
Are you talking about valve stem seals? If so those can be replaced with the head on, I had those pop up before running the super tech duals cause was running the incorrect ones. I then switched to the vitons with gsc behives never had a issue again. If your talking about some other type of seal then I apologize.