Got R35 GTR coils working on my Evo
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From: West Coast
No you are wrong, and I am by no means trying to create any negative conditions, it is not a just a matter of having the right trigger type for the coil to break the magnetic force-field and feed the plug, i.e a rising edge or falling edge trigger. It is the ecu who is creating the forcefield and the ecu which breaks it. An ecu capacitor , transistor and driver has certain capabilites and limits in storing and trasmiting voltage, in other words how fast, strong and consistent. It is the ecu which charges the coil, it is the ecu driver that controls the coil. The same effect goes for a weak harness , of the wrong gauge, the wrong route, the wrong parts used, resistance issues etc. Aftermarket ecus have parts of higher capabilities. For instance I run a power fc Pro, and the dwell times for stock coils are different than the ones on the stock ecu.
This is a thread about coil packs, and its here to help evo owners, it might be about the r35 coil pack, but mentioning another type of coil pack as comparison part to the r35 coils, and as an alternative to them, is also a helpful part of the conversation, and it does fall very much in the spectrum of respect. If the O.P has a problem with my tundra mentioning part he can ask me to remove it. It would have been dis-respectful if I did not accept the above findings, considered biased or false, and objected to it, by providing findings on the Lexus coils on this thread. I do know how the r35 coils perform as I have used them, hence why I agree with his findings. I merely gave to others and to the O.P some more food for thought on the matter in case that interests them.
Here is a link to the ones I am talking about :https://www.holley.com/products/igni...n/parts/822183
Again if my posts are not welcome by the O.P, I will remove them no worries at all.
Marios
This is a thread about coil packs, and its here to help evo owners, it might be about the r35 coil pack, but mentioning another type of coil pack as comparison part to the r35 coils, and as an alternative to them, is also a helpful part of the conversation, and it does fall very much in the spectrum of respect. If the O.P has a problem with my tundra mentioning part he can ask me to remove it. It would have been dis-respectful if I did not accept the above findings, considered biased or false, and objected to it, by providing findings on the Lexus coils on this thread. I do know how the r35 coils perform as I have used them, hence why I agree with his findings. I merely gave to others and to the O.P some more food for thought on the matter in case that interests them.
Here is a link to the ones I am talking about :https://www.holley.com/products/igni...n/parts/822183
Again if my posts are not welcome by the O.P, I will remove them no worries at all.
Marios
As far as I understand it, these coils are all self contained. The ECU is simply telling them when to fire and for how long. The coils have within themselves power FET's and circuitry that handles charging. The ECU simply turns on a relay that sends power to the coils and a high impedance signal to trigger them. If it would be helpful I can post circuit diagrams from the service manual to help illustrate this point.
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From: Cyprus
Yes they do have a built in igniter, hence why they are called smart inductive coils, they do not need an external igniter as the gallant vr4 up to evo 3, but the way the ecu sends the signal, how fast, consistent and strong differs from ecu to ecu and that affects dwell. The fact that I have run different dwell settings on stock coils between oem ecu and the power fc, verifies that. The signal comes straight from the ecu, only the power comes from the relay. This is how I know it.
These are the coils I currently use : https://www.ebay.com.au/p/5004717260
Marios
These are the coils I currently use : https://www.ebay.com.au/p/5004717260
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 4, 2020 at 12:46 PM. Reason: typo
Not a fan of cover plates I have the AMS kit and I think it heat soaks and cooks the coils over time.
Any idea of the spark energy and duration on the ams cop kit?
Any idea of the spark energy and duration on the ams cop kit?
Last edited by Grimgrak; Jul 4, 2020 at 07:16 PM.
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
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From: Cyprus
-If by stalk issue you mean the delay/slow charging of the coils, I had no delay issue whatsoever. Coils worked perfectly, no issues at all. I run a Power FC D-jetro which I converted to the Pro version of the unit, the Power fc uses different can bus routes than the stock ecu, through it you can also eliminate enough parts the stock ecu needs to use in order to controls other parts,such as the resistor packs, certain relays, certain wiring, also I have completely rerouted and changed the whole engine harness, and removed everything that is not necessary to me, added relays, i.e for fuel pumps, certain relays I had to keep I used aftermarket items instead and rerouted them differently, wiring has also been gauge upgraded where it was needed.
-The only reason I do not use r35 coils, is because the only ones worth having are the oem ones, and they are expensive to replace for me.
-Original Bosch coils have more voltage at the spark than what is posted here, around the 40 @ 2ms dwell mark, in mj energy. They did send me an analytical report in volt vs ms but it was years ago I do not have that email. That's what I got from emailing Bosch Germany back in the day, and by putting a coil to the test although I do not remember the exact volt number I do remember it was around there. So I will go by the fact that the bosch are between 35-40 mj @2ms dwell. 35 mj at the plug with the right gap is enough to run a 1000hp setup.
Marios
-The only reason I do not use r35 coils, is because the only ones worth having are the oem ones, and they are expensive to replace for me.
-Original Bosch coils have more voltage at the spark than what is posted here, around the 40 @ 2ms dwell mark, in mj energy. They did send me an analytical report in volt vs ms but it was years ago I do not have that email. That's what I got from emailing Bosch Germany back in the day, and by putting a coil to the test although I do not remember the exact volt number I do remember it was around there. So I will go by the fact that the bosch are between 35-40 mj @2ms dwell. 35 mj at the plug with the right gap is enough to run a 1000hp setup.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 5, 2020 at 02:10 PM. Reason: typo
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
-If by stalk issue you mean the delay/slow charging of the coils, I had no delay issue whatsoever. Coils worked perfectly, no issues at all. I run a Power FC D-jetro which I converted to the Pro version of the unit, the Power fc uses different can bus routes than the stock ecu, through it you can also eliminate enough parts the stock ecu needs to use in order to controls other parts,such as the resistor packs, certain relays, certain wiring, also I have completely rerouted and changed the whole engine harness, and removed everything that is not necessary to me, added relays, i.e for fuel pumps, certain relays I had to keep I used aftermarket items instead and rerouted them differently, wiring has also been gauge upgraded where it was needed.
...
Marios
...
Marios
Last edited by mrfred; Jul 5, 2020 at 08:40 PM.
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From: Cyprus
-You should have used the terms boot incompatibility issue.
-I used different boots, with a br8es plug. The boots were for the 3,2L v6 mitsubishi Pajero model.
-I've also used the ignition coils from that model with a CDI module on the setup. It actually worked very well until CDI box **** itself. And these coils are a lot bulkier than the hitachi.
- I bought the coils and plugs off ebay used but genuine without boots.
Marios
-I used different boots, with a br8es plug. The boots were for the 3,2L v6 mitsubishi Pajero model.
-I've also used the ignition coils from that model with a CDI module on the setup. It actually worked very well until CDI box **** itself. And these coils are a lot bulkier than the hitachi.
- I bought the coils and plugs off ebay used but genuine without boots.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 5, 2020 at 08:29 PM. Reason: typo/added comment
-You should have used the terms boot incompatibility issue.
-I used different boots, with a br8es plug. The boots were for the 3,2L v6 mitsubishi Pajero model.
-I've also used the ignition coils from that model with a CDI module on the setup. It actually worked very well until CDI box **** itself. And these coils are a lot bulkier than the hitachi.
Marios
-I used different boots, with a br8es plug. The boots were for the 3,2L v6 mitsubishi Pajero model.
-I've also used the ignition coils from that model with a CDI module on the setup. It actually worked very well until CDI box **** itself. And these coils are a lot bulkier than the hitachi.
Marios
I knew what he meant by Stalk
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From: Cyprus
Did you now, well I ain't american, so the only stalk I know is when people stalk one as in trying, in as less of an obvious way as possible, to observe and watch what ones does with his personal life, and that is neither polite nor proper, immoral I might add.
Hello to you too mate.
Marios
Hello to you too mate.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 5, 2020 at 06:30 PM. Reason: typo
Did you now, well I ain't american, so the only stalk I know is when people stalk one as in trying, in as less of an obvious way as possible, to observe and watch what ones does with his personal life, and that is neither polite nor proper, immoral I might add.
Hello to you too mate.
Marios
Hello to you too mate.
Marios
Cheers, Joe
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From: West Coast
Sorry, I should have been more consistent in my word usage. I meant that the coil boot is not long enough to have sufficient overlap with the spark plug, and as a result, spark energy leakage occurs when the coil is fired, causing weak spark. I mentioned this in my first post. Here is a photo showing the amount of overlap with the OEM GTR boot on an Evo 9 using a carbon fiber coil mounting plate. As can be seen, the amount of boot overlap onto the ceramic is far from optimum. Some people seem to have successfully used GTR coils, but I have no idea how unless they are also using a non-stock boot. I know that the PRP GTR coil kit utilizes a special boot, so apparently, they experienced the same issue.
https://platinumracingproductsusa.co...ket-and-stalks
They almost look like something you could 3d print. As long as you had a filament that could handle the environment.
Last edited by Biggiesacks; Jul 5, 2020 at 08:01 PM.
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From: Cyprus
To mrfred,
-So the problem of the boots is that they are short? From the pics of them, they do not seem that short, is it maybe because your mounting plate does not allow the colis to sit low enough? As I added above on post 22, I bought the coils without boots.
Marios
-So the problem of the boots is that they are short? From the pics of them, they do not seem that short, is it maybe because your mounting plate does not allow the colis to sit low enough? As I added above on post 22, I bought the coils without boots.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 5, 2020 at 08:35 PM. Reason: typo