Installing my ARP head studs
Jul 18, 2004, 10:20 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Zeus
gsnt,
This may sound nit picky, but in what order do you install the studs with the "one at a time" method? Torque sequence forward or reverse, or which way has worked out best for you?
This may sound nit picky, but in what order do you install the studs with the "one at a time" method? Torque sequence forward or reverse, or which way has worked out best for you?
Definatly let the motor cool down as much as possible. Thats hard for a shop to do sometimes because its not pheasable to keep a car over night and have it take up needed space just for a 2 hour head stud install but I always try to let the car sit until the motor is cooled down enough to where I can touch any part of the motor and keep my hand on it without getting hot. Id say usually within 20-25 degrees of the ambient temperature at the time.
Here is a tip on putting the studs in. I dont put moly lube on the lower threads into the block, the moly lube is only intended to act as a lubricant between the threads of the stud and the nut, which is allowing the torque that you are applying to nut to be applied to the head and not to the friction between the nut and stud, thats why ARP says if you dont have moly lube that you go higher with oil. Put a small amount of motor oil on the bottom threads, apply moly lube to the top threads, put the washer onto the nut and go ahead and thread about half the nut onto the top of the stud. Grab the whole piece by the nut and washer and slide it down until the end of hte stud is right at the hole, and let the washer drop right into place then drop the rest of the stud into the hole. Screw the stud into the block with an allen wrench and make it hand tight. then you can put a socket on and run the nut down against the head and propely torque it.
By doing it this way you wont get the washers caught on any of the valve springs and you wont drop any washers down into the head, which can be a pain in the **** to get out sometimes.
Hope this makes it easier for you guys doing it yourselves.
Happy Boosting,
Eric #2
Jul 18, 2004, 10:43 AM
#34
Originally Posted by gsnt
Pretty much what Quickshift said. Ive actually started from the outside before, purely from habit of starting out there following the removal sequence because the first thing you do when you start is remove a bolt, and my mind is just programmed to start there. Ive never had a problem that way. But now that Quickshift mentioned it, it does make sense to start from the inside because you are tightening the new fastiners down harder so it would be essentially like using the tightening sequence to retorque a set of bolts that were already in there.
Definatly let the motor cool down as much as possible. Thats hard for a shop to do sometimes because its not pheasable to keep a car over night and have it take up needed space just for a 2 hour head stud install but I always try to let the car sit until the motor is cooled down enough to where I can touch any part of the motor and keep my hand on it without getting hot. Id say usually within 20-25 degrees of the ambient temperature at the time.
Here is a tip on putting the studs in. I dont put moly lube on the lower threads into the block, the moly lube is only intended to act as a lubricant between the threads of the stud and the nut, which is allowing the torque that you are applying to nut to be applied to the head and not to the friction between the nut and stud, thats why ARP says if you dont have moly lube that you go higher with oil. Put a small amount of motor oil on the bottom threads, apply moly lube to the top threads, put the washer onto the nut and go ahead and thread about half the nut onto the top of the stud. Grab the whole piece by the nut and washer and slide it down until the end of hte stud is right at the hole, and let the washer drop right into place then drop the rest of the stud into the hole. Screw the stud into the block with an allen wrench and make it hand tight. then you can put a socket on and run the nut down against the head and propely torque it.
By doing it this way you wont get the washers caught on any of the valve springs and you wont drop any washers down into the head, which can be a pain in the **** to get out sometimes.
Hope this makes it easier for you guys doing it yourselves.
Happy Boosting,
Eric #2
Definatly let the motor cool down as much as possible. Thats hard for a shop to do sometimes because its not pheasable to keep a car over night and have it take up needed space just for a 2 hour head stud install but I always try to let the car sit until the motor is cooled down enough to where I can touch any part of the motor and keep my hand on it without getting hot. Id say usually within 20-25 degrees of the ambient temperature at the time.
Here is a tip on putting the studs in. I dont put moly lube on the lower threads into the block, the moly lube is only intended to act as a lubricant between the threads of the stud and the nut, which is allowing the torque that you are applying to nut to be applied to the head and not to the friction between the nut and stud, thats why ARP says if you dont have moly lube that you go higher with oil. Put a small amount of motor oil on the bottom threads, apply moly lube to the top threads, put the washer onto the nut and go ahead and thread about half the nut onto the top of the stud. Grab the whole piece by the nut and washer and slide it down until the end of hte stud is right at the hole, and let the washer drop right into place then drop the rest of the stud into the hole. Screw the stud into the block with an allen wrench and make it hand tight. then you can put a socket on and run the nut down against the head and propely torque it.
By doing it this way you wont get the washers caught on any of the valve springs and you wont drop any washers down into the head, which can be a pain in the **** to get out sometimes.
Hope this makes it easier for you guys doing it yourselves.
Happy Boosting,
Eric #2
where are you guys located?
Jul 18, 2004, 04:26 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by gsnt
Pretty much what Quickshift said. Ive actually started from the outside before, purely from habit of starting out there following the removal sequence because the first thing you do when you start is remove a bolt, and my mind is just programmed to start there. Ive never had a problem that way. But now that Quickshift mentioned it, it does make sense to start from the inside because you are tightening the new fastiners down harder so it would be essentially like using the tightening sequence to retorque a set of bolts that were already in there.
Definatly let the motor cool down as much as possible. Thats hard for a shop to do sometimes because its not pheasable to keep a car over night and have it take up needed space just for a 2 hour head stud install but I always try to let the car sit until the motor is cooled down enough to where I can touch any part of the motor and keep my hand on it without getting hot. Id say usually within 20-25 degrees of the ambient temperature at the time.
Here is a tip on putting the studs in. I dont put moly lube on the lower threads into the block, the moly lube is only intended to act as a lubricant between the threads of the stud and the nut, which is allowing the torque that you are applying to nut to be applied to the head and not to the friction between the nut and stud, thats why ARP says if you dont have moly lube that you go higher with oil. Put a small amount of motor oil on the bottom threads, apply moly lube to the top threads, put the washer onto the nut and go ahead and thread about half the nut onto the top of the stud. Grab the whole piece by the nut and washer and slide it down until the end of hte stud is right at the hole, and let the washer drop right into place then drop the rest of the stud into the hole. Screw the stud into the block with an allen wrench and make it hand tight. then you can put a socket on and run the nut down against the head and propely torque it.
By doing it this way you wont get the washers caught on any of the valve springs and you wont drop any washers down into the head, which can be a pain in the **** to get out sometimes.
Hope this makes it easier for you guys doing it yourselves.
Happy Boosting,
Eric #2
Definatly let the motor cool down as much as possible. Thats hard for a shop to do sometimes because its not pheasable to keep a car over night and have it take up needed space just for a 2 hour head stud install but I always try to let the car sit until the motor is cooled down enough to where I can touch any part of the motor and keep my hand on it without getting hot. Id say usually within 20-25 degrees of the ambient temperature at the time.
Here is a tip on putting the studs in. I dont put moly lube on the lower threads into the block, the moly lube is only intended to act as a lubricant between the threads of the stud and the nut, which is allowing the torque that you are applying to nut to be applied to the head and not to the friction between the nut and stud, thats why ARP says if you dont have moly lube that you go higher with oil. Put a small amount of motor oil on the bottom threads, apply moly lube to the top threads, put the washer onto the nut and go ahead and thread about half the nut onto the top of the stud. Grab the whole piece by the nut and washer and slide it down until the end of hte stud is right at the hole, and let the washer drop right into place then drop the rest of the stud into the hole. Screw the stud into the block with an allen wrench and make it hand tight. then you can put a socket on and run the nut down against the head and propely torque it.
By doing it this way you wont get the washers caught on any of the valve springs and you wont drop any washers down into the head, which can be a pain in the **** to get out sometimes.
Hope this makes it easier for you guys doing it yourselves.
Happy Boosting,
Eric #2
You can also use a little graber ( like a pickup magnet for droped bolts, but it has a plunger on the top and little prongs on the bottom to grab things) I used that I mine and my freinds was cake to do this way with the washer. As far as pulling the studs on the outsides of the block the washer will get caught on the valve spring bottom , just takes a little manuvering but it was come out just be patient
And the kits designed for the EVO 8 have washers that will slide right down and not get caught on anything . ARP nuts required a 16 sided 9/16 socket .
Jul 18, 2004, 04:41 PM
#36
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You know, there are different classes of taps for any particular thread, and if you use the proper class tap, it will do just that, clean the hole. You can also use a thread chaser, or cleaner, whatever you want to call it. But it is important to have the threads clean, and burr free. If you use a tap properly, and the threads are not nicked up, dirty, or stretched from the torque of the fastener, then chasing the thread should change nothing in terms of thread fit.
But I will tel you this, that I have never taken apart a motor that has had some use on it, and chased the threads and removed the tap without some sort of crud on it. Not always parent material, but debris. Also, no matter what you think, any block is dynamic, which meand that it moves around, and settles with loads, temperature and cyclic stresses, and a threaded hole that has a fastener inserted into it, and pulled up to a specific torque and then subject to the stresses of running on the engine, can and will change the shape of the hole and the threads. And that will affect the fastener installation, so I would %100 agree that it is a good idea to chase the threads since they do change during use, and cleaning them up will help the new threads engage properly.
In closing, and in reality, I am not trying to worry anyone at all, I just found it funny that no one mentions that procedure. I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who never do it, and never have a problem- but that is only because the block and the fastener os stronger than the head it is holding on, so the margin is large. But if you were to install head studs %100 properly, I would remove the head, check it for flatness, check the block for flatness and adress them if need be, clean the threads, install the fasteners properly and use a new gasket, and install the head and torque it properly.
But I will tel you this, that I have never taken apart a motor that has had some use on it, and chased the threads and removed the tap without some sort of crud on it. Not always parent material, but debris. Also, no matter what you think, any block is dynamic, which meand that it moves around, and settles with loads, temperature and cyclic stresses, and a threaded hole that has a fastener inserted into it, and pulled up to a specific torque and then subject to the stresses of running on the engine, can and will change the shape of the hole and the threads. And that will affect the fastener installation, so I would %100 agree that it is a good idea to chase the threads since they do change during use, and cleaning them up will help the new threads engage properly.
In closing, and in reality, I am not trying to worry anyone at all, I just found it funny that no one mentions that procedure. I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who never do it, and never have a problem- but that is only because the block and the fastener os stronger than the head it is holding on, so the margin is large. But if you were to install head studs %100 properly, I would remove the head, check it for flatness, check the block for flatness and adress them if need be, clean the threads, install the fasteners properly and use a new gasket, and install the head and torque it properly.
Jul 18, 2004, 05:21 PM
#37
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Well put the ARP headstuds in today. I used the 1 by 1 method. Worked from the inside out. And uses the lube that was provided. I think got a new torque wrench just incase my old one was off. And torque them down to 75 foot pounds. Took about 2 hours from start to finish and that was with me taking breaks and taking my time. I then let the car warm up and took it out and everything seems to be fine. Ill do a compression test tomorrow to make sure the head gasket is ok. 
Jul 18, 2004, 10:32 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Az3ar
where are you guys located?
Arlington Heights, IL Just northwest of Chicago O'Hare Airport in Chicagos NW burbs.
Jul 19, 2004, 10:33 PM
#41
Well, the ARP studs went in easily by hand without needing to be "chased". I was quite pleased, as they were very clean with no material left in the threads. You have to be very careful not to drop the ARP washers into any of the fluid passages though... that would be a mess. If anyone is not up to the task in the Austin Texas region, and wants to install these without pulling the head, PM me. I will do it for a VERY small fee compared to what people are being quoted (who have posted here).
Jul 20, 2004, 09:17 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by WOT
Why 75 ft pounds? My ARP instructions said to torque their hardware to 65 ft lbs on a aluminum head?