wow i jsut did some research on various liquids...

Water of course has a boiling point of just around 212 degrees F. at 1 ATM
"Blue" Washer fluid has a boiling point of around 180 degrees F. at 1 ATM

For those who don't understand what that means is it turns from a liquid to a gas 30+ degrees lower then water will, opperating temps on our cars are 180+ degrees and i'm sure the compressed air is higher then that.

What this all means is washer fluid has about the same boiling point as rubbing alcohol so its kinda like splashing your IC with rubbing alcohol ?!? This should definantly make some difference if compair to water.

 

I heard the IC sprayed was gonna get axed form the car for 2005. I read a thread somewhere comparing dyno runs with and without the sprayed activated.

If I remember right, there were NO discernable differences in preformance or output.

I like the IC sprayer, I just wonder if it was a sales gimic, or really a truely functional piece.

 

The IC sprayer is removed to make room for new components like the middle diff stuff.

 

and dyno pulls have no use for an IC sprayer... it wasn't intended for short term gains... its only a liquid vaporizing and drawing out head in the process, also those fans in a dyno room do not generate 60+ mph winds .. how effective would the sprayer be on the street at say 15mph?... not very

my guess mitsubishi is using the acd is to try and eliminate all this clutch gripe, the drivetrain was designed to be used with it and was not intenedd to be messed with... mitsu's short planning of ripping it out to cut cost and save on training men to work on it was about the stupidest thing they could have done for launching the evolution... then again when have they not cut a corner in the US and did well in the process

 

Does it rain distilled water where you live?

With all the road crud splashing on the intercooler from the street, what difference does minerals dissolved in tap water make?

 

Why yes it does. Water vapor evaporates (distills), and upon doing so, it sheds its mineral content. When it falls as rain, it pics up certain organic and inorganic impurities, but not scale causing minerals (e.g. Ca & Mg).

My IC is free of road crud, simply because I keep it clean. On the other hand, a frequent spray of tap water and mineral water both tend to contain significant concentrations of Calcium, which tends to leave a hard scale that compromises the efficiency of a heat transferring surface. You know, like the hard scale that eventually ruins a radiator. If you use at least distilled water or preferrably washer fluid, this is a non-issue.

 

If you mix water with alcohol you will get a better cooling effect, the evaporative properties of alcohol is greater than water or washer fluid. I mix 1:1, I am ordering a temp gauge tonight....I will report if my theory is just in my dumbass head

 

I think you're stretching things to support your original point. You mean you clean your intercooler with distilled water? Won't wetting the entire thing with tap water, even when it's cold, do the same thing over time as spraying it with tap water when it's hot?

Do you really think there is no dissolved calcium and magnesium in standing water on city streets, especially if the streets or highways are concrete? Let's not forget oil, organic solvents, acids in acid rain, and many other impurities.

You can put what you want in the intercooler sprayer, obviously. I just think personally that it doesn't make much difference whether it's tap water or distilled water, for the reasons I've listed.

 

The manual doesn't specify that you need to run distilled water or not. I have been running just plain tap water in it. I guess I might change to windsheild wiper fluid, but do you guys think that tap water will really hurt it all that much?

 

I thought the point of using distilled water in the ic spray was to avoid the mineral deposits from building up inside the ic spray system.

 

The boiling point of the fluid has nothing to do with the amount of heat it can absorb. The boiling point is simply the temperature at which a change of state occurs when a material changes from a liquid to a gas, not how much heat energy it takes to make that change occur. But the boiling point will effect how much heat is absorbed... I'll explain below. I'm not arguing with you, I just want to make the reasons abundantly clear.

The specific heat of a fluid is what determines it's ability to absorb heat energy.

Water has a specific heat of 1.00 Btu/lb*F... meaning it takes one Btu of heat energy to raise 1 lb of water 1 degree F. Materials with a higher specific heat require more energy to raise their temp by one degree, and materials with a lower specific heat require less. (duh)

Alcohol has a high specific heat capacity when compared to toulene or gasoline, but is is still only ~0.60 Btu/lb*F, meaning it takes 60% of the heat energy to heat alcohol compared to water. As a matter of fact, the only fluid I could find that has a higher specific heat than water is ammonia, which boils (turns to vapor) at -28.1*F.

This information alone speaks volumes about waters incredible heat absorbtion capabilities. Radiator Fluid has a lower specific heat than water, but it's boiling point is significantly higher than water and it's freezing point is significantly lower than water. That is why various mixes of water and coolant have different levels of protection for different temps. If you are living in an environment that never sees temps below freezing, use distilled water, it will cool your engine the best.

Anyway, back to the IC sprayer...

The other fluid property to consider is the latent heat of evaporation, or simply the amount of heat energy it takes to cause a change of state from liquid to gas. Simply heating a pot of water to 212*F does not cause it to boil, once it reaches 212*F it will remain there until enough heat energy has been added to cause a change of state. Water has the highest latent heat of evaporation of any common fluid. Once you heat water to 212*F you need to add another 970Btu/lb to change the it from liquid to gas!! So even after the water has reached 212*F it will continue to absorb energy before it evaporates, and a lot of energy at that.

The other side of the coin is this... A difference in temperature is what drives the heat transfer in the first place.

Once the water reaches the same temperature as the intercooler, no more heat will be taken out.

Lets make some very simple (albeit bad) assumptions here.

Your IC is 200*F
Your IC Sprayer Coolant is 75*F
You are spraying 1LB of Coolant on your IC, and it all hits the IC at once and stays on the IC after it's sprayed there
Everything else doesn't matter (like I said, bad assuptions, but good enough for this exercise)

You spray 1lb of 75*F water on your IC.... it will take 125Btu's of heat to warm that water to 200*F (the water never wants to boil since it doesn't hit 212*F)

Now you spray 1lb of 75*F alcohol on your IC.... (this is where things get interesting) Alcohol boils at 172.4*F, we'll just say 170*F for simplicities sake. It will take only 57Btu's of heat to raise that 1 lb of alcohol to it's boiling point of 170*F [ (170*F - 75*F)(0.6 Btu/lb*F)(1 lb) ].

However... your IC is hotter than 170*F, so it will continue to add heat to the alcohol, making it want to boil (it never did this with the water, since water boils at 212*F). Alcohol has a latent heat of evaporation of 385 Btu/lb, which is lower than waters 970.4 Btu/lb. But since the alcohol has reached it's boiling point and the water never did, it will now absorb another 385 Btu's of heat before it boils!!! You add the 57 Btu's from the change in temp, to the 385 Btu's from the evaporation, and you end up with 442 Btu's of heat absorbed!!! That is over 3.5 times the heat absorbed by the water!!!

That is why alcohol is better in this application (we'll ignore the flamability, lol)

Now if your IC is at a temp lower than 170*F, use water, it will absorb more heat, if it is above 170, use the alcohol, but if it is above 212*F, go back to the water.

There is even more to consider though...

As I stated earlier, the difference in temperature drives the heat transfer. Systems are constantly working towards a state of equilibrium. So the farther apart 2 temperatures are, the faster the heat will transfer in an effort to level things out. So having a cooler fluid on a hotter IC will transfer the heat faster than if the two temps are close together... here's what I mean.

If your IC is 300*F and you're using water at 40*F, and you want to raise the temp of the water (same as lowering the temp of the IC, the heat has to come from somewhere) to 50*F, it will take 10 Btu's of heat.

If your IC is 150*F and your water is 100*F and you want to raise the temp of the water to 110*F, it will still take 10 Btu's of heat, but it will take longer for this change in temp to occur. This is driven by transient heat transfer properties that I won't get into now.

But the point that I'm trying to make is make sure you keep you IC spraying coolant as cool as possible and only use it when your IC is definately hot, or else it won't take out the heat very quickly.

Phew, ok I'm done for now.

- Steve

 

yikes, good thing I gradjiated my local community college....J/K

Steve, thanks the for the in-depth heads up. I may convert to alcohol after all.

 

FWIW, washer fluid is made with distilled water and alcohol. Why is this?

Tap water contains minerals. Anywhere there is evaporation of water, only the water itself (and volatile impurities) evaporates and the scale-causing minerals precipitate. Want to see an example of this? Leave your unwaxed car out in the hot sun a while and spray it with a hose. Let it dry. All those water spots are the result of what was left behind when the water evaporated. Or, take a glass and run it a few times in a dishwasher using hot water and no soap. The calcium scale buildup will become plainly apparent. Left to accumulate, this scale will become a concrete mass given enough time, and only a thorough wash in acid will remove it. You may alreay be familiar with acid wash products used to clean the spotty scale residue from windows, bathtub fixtures, etc.

Distilled water contains no minerals. It's impractical to wash your car with distilled water, so you have to dry it before the water evaporates and leaves the spots. For your car's windshield washer, radiator, and IC sprayer, only distilled water should be used because you won't get a buildup of crud in the system, on the tip of the sprayer, or on the surfaces where the water is sprayed. Only distilled water should be added to your car's battery as well.

It's plain to see this isn't about 'proving a point', but is just simple science. The persons who wrote the recommendation for washer fluid to be used in the IC sprayer didn't do it because they wanted to see you spend 99 cents/gal on washer fluid. They did it because they know it's more effective than water alone AND because it is made with distilled water, it will not cause buildup that will compromise the efficiency or longevity of the system, plain and simple.

 

prowler...

I wouldn't convert to alcohol due to it's flammability, you basically have a combustible fuel in a reservoir in the front of your car. Not to mention you will be spraying it onto your intercooler, if any of it makes it past the IC, AC condenser, and radiator it will be hitting a hot turbo and could very well ignite. I very much recommend against it.

Ted B....

I am in the same boat as you, I was not here to argue or "prove who's right" at all. Simply stating the scientific evidence to back up the washer fluid. The washer fluid should work better than water at cooling the IC, but I don't know the specific heat or latent heat of washer fluid, so it's hard to know for sure. I don't want to speculate when only knowing the boiling point. Regardless, take this info for what you think it's worth, but it's good to know someone is willing to just listen and not see everything posted as an argument.

-Steve

 

steve good post... i'm sure i learned all that about specific heat in chem calss but i was prob asleep that day, lol thanks for filling in what I left out.