HKS 7460 GTII 'Kai' - Failures?
 

The original HKS 7460 GTII had plenty of failures for various reasons.

Has anyone seen or heard of the revised Kai version having any issues at all?

I know I haven't heard of any.

Specifically the WG flapper warping and not sealing. After we had 2 of the original 7460s do that we have shy'd away from them for road racing. Curious if the KAI has done anything like that to anyone...the original for that matter. Maybe we got the only 2 that did it?

Yes I'd heard of the wastegate flapper warping issues too. I was concerned as I head HKS only upgraded the metallurgy of the flapper actuator, but then they also make a vague statement about 4 times improved heat resistance of the unit. This might mean everything in/around the hotside.

The bearing also appeared to have failed on a few and there seemed to be other modes of failure also. Hard to discern from pics though the actual order of events that occurred during the failures.

They could be a brilliant turbo if they have corrected the issues they were having and I'm seriously tempted to get one. However I do road race style driving and with sometimes hours of spirited driving I'm worried about reliability.

Anyone else have anything to add?

Can you substantiate your claims--? I have read a few threads that were not conclusive and there are a couple mentioned here. So flapper failure? What were the serial numbers affected? When did they make the change ( serial numbers)? Is there a post from HKS on this somewhere? Asking as I have one--want to know what to look for and since HKS pulled out of the states what the options are to get it fixed if it fails? Is there a kit for the flapper alternative replacement?

Its my understanding HKS insist you deal with warranty through the dealer you purchased from. Perhaps they can contact HKS japan for you.

Aaron I'm sure can describe the wastegate flapper warping but as far as I have read, its as described. They warp, fail to seal and you get delayed spool/lower boost.

I've pm'd a few guys that had them and no one still has one, they all died one way or other.

Annoyingly its THE best turbo for my application based on reported performance and specs, I'm just very wary of them now. The kai supposedly addressed the issues being made 4 times more heat resistant whatever that means, and having a reinforced? CHRA, but HKS are typically close lipped about it all and its hard to tell what was actually done.

Thats why I wanted reports from Kai owners confirming there is no issues or otherwise. Im this close to getting a BBK and giving up a few hundred RPM spool...

I don't think the flapper or the housing was the problem.

I think people didn't adjust their wga rod when it relaxed (poor wastegate actuator rod design IMO) that caused excess heat gonig through the wastegate flapper opening and therefore warping the flapper/opening.

My HKS failed recently... oil seal pushed itself out.

Intersting...

This thread really bums me out since I haven't installed mine yet. Really like the turbo cause of the BB reliability, but now I'm scared to install it...

I'm sending it back to HKS this week hopefully.

Would this have to do because of the higher oil pressure from the oil housing rather than taking the oil feed from the head? The HKS has an orifice plate on the incoming banjo bolt (from what I understand) designed around the oil pressure coming from the head, not the oil pressure coming from the oil filter housing. Depending on the flow, you could be introducing oil pressure significantly higher to the turbo than what was intended by HKS when they put that orifice plate in in the first place.

I put the journal bearing restrictor filter from FP in the feed line. So it should be seeing near OEM oil pressure... BEFORE the HKS oil filter inline.

I spoke to HKS USA and Sean Ivey about it before I ran it that way.

I have a picture of it somewhere but it was definitely warped. I am not one that normally makes claims for no apparent reason. It was not the WGA needing tightened, it warped and wouldnt seal.

Aaron

Agreed> if I offended, I am sorry--that was not my intent. Your post are always relevant. Until this thread there had been very little info on HKS failures-- the 2 that Ernie eluded too and then these...so a hand full all in all from what I can tell.. certainly not close to what we have seen from other turbo’s this past year on this forum.

My point is, bad new spreads faster then good news. The thread suggest a problem with turbos before a certain fix-- I just asked for some info to support the notion that ealrier HKS turbos are bad or could go bad due to a specific problem-- and to identify the KAI turbos-- . Lacking seeing bad news before now and running the turbo for the last 9mos or so with no problems, I would say --as has been suggest earlier in this thread that there my be other reasons for the failures and that these failures are very limited and no representative of all HKS turbos build before the KAI.

Just want to know if I'm wrong and need to make some choices as an owner--

Thx

I think Aaron was referring to me :) I've been stubborn about admitting there may be a material issue with. Now that they've specifically come out with the Kai to address these issue. I owe Aaron the WIN and a "you told me so."

No harm no foul guys. The internet does a horrible job of showing the smile on my face as I type. I dont get upset or offended THAT easy :lol:{thumbup}

My source says HKS realized there were material/design deficiencies with the original about a month after release. They apparently suffered turbine failure on their test car and by that time people had had CHRA failures, turbine failures etc.

4 months after the original was released the kai was released, and HKS 'said' all turbos sold in the US market were kai versions since they had caught the issue before HKS USA sold any. Then I heard a rep from HKS said they were selling all non kai stock first.... I dont know whats true but from the amount of failures the US market reported I'd hazard a guess you guys didnt get the kai until many non kai's were sold. Easy to tell anyway, the Kai's actually have Kai written on the blue/silver plate on the comp housing and on the box and in the manual.

For those thinking its just a few that failed and many didnt, search the net/this site, pm who is using/used a 7460 and ask them if it's alive or if it died. Everyone I PM'd had theirs die. Aaron reported 2 warped flappers which to me also counts as material failure.

Seems all the failures scared everyone off and not many have tried a kai so we may never know if they're any good.

I emailed HKS Australia and they said they'd not had any returns of these (think they meant locally) and claimed to be unaware of any widespread issue with the 7460R.

I asked specifically what had been changed/revised in the Kai version since I've seen people report bearing failure, oil seal failure, turbine failure etc. This was their response that that question:

I'm really not sure what to make of it. People have said all kinds of things like the turbine was revised (Sean from Iveytune said this was untrue) and reinforced CHRA I have heard multiple times now from various people. Given all the ways these things have let go, can something that's just had the wastegate flapper made more heat resistant be trusted?


Also in the product notes for the kai it says "the heat durability is enhanced 4 times" than the original. Nice marketing, but in reality it probably means the turbine/flapper totally melted in 10 seconds at X*C, now it lasted 40 seconds. Who knows.

Threads like this are less informative and more discouraging cause a lot of it is speculation that ends up scaring people away from this turbo. I still have yet to see all these failures you are talking about. I also have yet to see a significant amount of people chiming in that had this turbo fail on them or even people still running it without problems. 18bora is pushing his 7460 on pump and still tracking his car. R/TErnie had really good success on E85 before running into problems with it.

We have seen turbo failures in all makes and models... it comes with the territory. Manufacturing quality, tolerances, materials, installation, tuning, etc. can all effect a turbo's reliability. The only thing I can agree with you is the support from HKS is not there like other US companies (CBRD, FP, MAP, etc.).

I understand your point, however-

A warped flapper is not speculation. WGA issues and center cartridge failure is not speculation. No one said that other manufacturers dont have issues, the question was if the Kai resolved the known problems there were with the 7460. The whole point of this post is to see if it was common or not. It really appears that it isnt. I cant find the pix I took of Karl's when we pulled it off the car, I will email him and see if I can get him to snap some.

Aaron

There are lots of well documented cases of failures on the original design of the turbo. That isn't speculation, its fact. The thread was to see if the updates fix the very really problems with the turbo design. My guess is that very few people are willing to risk running the new version after the problems with the old one.

Again besides the few that have chimmed in I have not seen significant failures. So one warped flapper, one center cartridge failure and a bunch of WGA issues that just involves some tweaking and some attention. I've read a lot more failures with FP and CBRD turbos. Fortunately because of FP's & CBRD's great customer service and engineering they have resolved those issues with their turbos and hopefully their customers.

Run up your EGT and you'll warp or melt anything. I read a failure were the installer couldn't even confirm if they used the OEM or HKS banjo bolts... that could cause failures.

Sean Ivey has been pushing these turbos pretty hard and I've never heard a peep from his customers on failures.

The speculation and gossip I'm talking about is what really caused the failures, not the actual documented failures... I agree those are facts. The speculation is the back and forth discussion about the two different versions and how the second version fixed all the reasons the first one was failing. Unless someone gets inside info directly from HKS engineering we will never know the truth.

The real test of any product is when it reaches the hands of the consumer. That's when you see the true real world results of all the paper calculations, lab and track tests. Just like our local US turbo suppliers maybe HKS didn't factor that consumers would push these turbos to there limits to squeeze every last psi out of them and so they revised their design to better handle the abuse... who knows, it's all witchcraft to me.

Mine is still alive and ticking.

I dont have a lot of miles on mine but still running like a champ..

dude and keath, do you guys have the original version or the KAI?

Three more satisfied 7460 customers:

MR. EVO MR
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-evo-8-mr.html

18bora:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ts-review.html

fabcas311 had a post somewhere with his results on a 7460 (think he took the thread down cause I can't find it). He was very happy with it before getting the itch for more air and going to a FP Black...then his motor went boom boom!

Spanked, nothing I have said has been speculation. I have simply stumbled across descriptions of failures and mentioned those here asking for owners for their experience. I am not saying what I've posted was the definite step one in a cascade of events leading to the turbo failure, but basically what the most damaged part was when it failed. Ive seen pics of compressor wheels missing blades, turbines missing blades and melted etc. Whether the wheels let go/melted first or the CHRA let go causing the wheels to hit the housing and break/seize no one could tell from a pic. The accounts are real though, but you are right in that some problems can be caused by poor installation or abuse.

I'm not trying to put anyone off, and I'm sure there are lots out there running them with no issues. I started out all keen for one then doing some research ran into accounts of problems, and couple that with less present support now based in a different country and yeah, I'm concerned. The 7460 looks like it'd be fantastic for me but it certainly has a question mark over its reliability. Other brands have had failures too but look at the market share difference. Maybe it was coincidence too but I pm'd multiple users on here after searching and they'd all (maybe 5-6 guys) had their 7460's fail. It's funny you bring up R/TErnie in support of your argument - his turbo eventually failed too.

Mine is not the KAI, OG, and R/T Ernie is the one who ported it.

The wg arm did need to be adjusted after several heat cycles. I posted my dyno results in the dyno sections.

So if there have been a "bunch sold" and for sake of argument lets say that number is 1000. If only the 5 or 6 we know of failed then the failure rate percentage is way above normal and I wouldnt be worried, 99.5% success rate is awesome. Drop that to 100 sold and really pushed hard, the 95% success rate isnt bad but its not the best.

R/T Ernie ran E85 so the EGT was low and still had issues. Karl was on a combo of pump/racegas, low boost and high timing and warped the flange. Thats 2. 98% success is awesome (if we refer back to the 100 sold that are pushed hard). Right now the odds are stacked agains the original 3 for and 2 against. The Kai seems to not have any complaints which is good.

I would tend to lean toward using it if I didnt believe so strongly in the Green now that is available as a DBB.

Aaron

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ess/hks001.jpg

I had number 90... and I got in on these things maybe 5 days after they got released.

this is the main reason I ported mine...

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ess/hks004.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ess/hks003.jpg


And here's the EXACT reason why the WGA arm loosens up during heat cycles.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ess/hks015.jpg

That stock unported intake looks a bit average, why would they do that? I guess porting voids your warranty too.

Not many people seem to use these turbos especially in the US where giving up 500rpm spool is nothing, and most just chase topend. The failure rate may be higher than 1-2% but we'll never know. In any case this threads been up for a few days now and there's not an angry mob in here screaming about failures so maybe its not as bad as I thought.

The Green DBB have basically no data supporting their insane pricetag. If price was no object I would consider trying one but I am looking at close to 3K landed to import and over 3K to buy local. That's crazy money for a turbo IMO. That and the BB CHRA isn't 'proven' to be reliable - I'm skeptical of early adoption.

Turbo choice is so hard. Some love BBK's some say worst turbos ever. Some love green some hate greens. Some love CBRD's customer service, others hate it and say FP's is the bomb. Seriously makes me want to go mad. Can't we just all agree lol

My turbo (original version) is been on the car for about 11k miles(about 10 1/4 mile pases/launch) no issues so far I hope stay that way :updown:

Generally people have not had any issues with this turbo.

I know of one cust with an evoX that broke 2 of these in a row, one melted turbine wheel and I forget on the other. Sent the last one back to HKS for warranty and still waiting to hear.

I guess time will tell, but I know of other companies with way more failures than what I have seen with HKS.

Sean

everything i have read and seen has been positive (application specific) regarding this turbo. JB had an interesting point using the numbers, and being a finance guy that really did me some good.

HKS is known for making quality parts ($) but good. They are very tight lipped, and unfortunately everything has to be sent back to there HQ for warranty which takes time and leaves a car down.

i have no personal experience with the hks turbo, so take it with a grain of salt. but with the BB green and other turbos coming out, to me, it would make more sense to steer that way for simplicity sake. warranty in the US. people who are active on the forum and easy to get in touch with. top notch service etc. Just eases the pain after a problem occurs. might be worth the extra $ for peace of mind.

but then again im just a guy whose on hour 18 of work and sleeping under my desk. so you should probably just ignore everything i say haha..

cheers and good luck

yes i was very satisfied with the 7460.... night and day difference between the black in spool...!!.and car feels much faster with the HKS(480whp) compare to the black @ 506hp.. i think MODS took the thread down due to JMS racing wasnt a verified vendor here.:D

btw my car should be up and running again this month with the built motor{thumbup}

What we have to see?

My super clean engine bay?

it shows the actuator rod then lengthens itself.

Watched the HKS informational video about these turbos on youtube, they said that the turbo was most efficient at 150kpa which is 21.76psi.......they later run it at 29psi for a test but I wonder when this thing blows hot air like the stock 9 turbo, probably mid 20's psi from the housing and wheel size? If people were running 30+ wouldnt that put a lot of strain on the CHRA and wheel/turbine? P.Ex would be off the chain at 29+psi....

True, but if you have a large heat exchanger and are chemically intercooling as well... You can make more power up to 36 psi ( note you end up making more torque and mid range. Yes it's hard on the turbo.

That companys names wouldnt happen to start with a P would it ? :lol:

Here is the WG flapper that warped that Aaron was talking about. History of the turbo... bought from Ivey, installed and tuned by English, one track day.... problems from the turbo, English adjusted the actuator arm, second track day... more problems, then turbo came off the car to see what the heck was going on.

http://youtu.be/MAFeMtqKxhg

so thus far any failures with the kai or is this more or less limited to the initial run of these

is the Evo 9 hotside and the 7460's interchangeable? i've wrecked both the stock Evo 9s and 7460 WGA road racing. i've got a Forge 25psi WGA preloaded properly and it's still not holding full boost. is suspect that it might be the HKS BOV, which i'll be switching out for a Synapse BOV shortly. if i still can't hit full boost then it must be the flapper not seating properly.

also, if i bought the 7460 GTII used, who can i talk to to have it sent back to HKS Japan?

TIA

Thanks for posting Karl :) {thumbup}

Teh turbine wheel is a different shape/size. So no, not a direct replacement.

Does the exhaust housing itself act as a heatsink for the flapper? So when closed, it would more or less be acting as one large piece of metal, but when slightly open the flapper is much more isolated from the housing and would be able to overheat? Could the order of events be WGA stretches due to stupid design, flapper cracks open then leaks & overheats resulting in warping? Or should a flapper be able to handle that and HKS just used an innapropriately rated metal for the job?

Bought used and you want warranty? That might be pretty tough.

The scenario above is very similar to a valve that gets burned. If something sticks between the valve and the seat all the additional flow heats up the valve and the material stuck there and can cause a blowtorch effect and burn the valve. I wouldnt be surprised is the constant leaking and lack of contact allowed excessive tempuratures and warping causing a domino effect.

^^^ what I've been saying all along

So whats the solution? replace the supplied actuator the turbo comes with, with a Forge or similar?

I would think its warping because everyone is running high preloads on the actuator. when you do that the valve barely lifts from its seat even when wide open. tons of hot gas through small space= warped arm from over heating. ultimately the arm wasnt made of the correct material. mitsu housings never warp arms.

If I were to run this turbo I would use evo 10.5 housing and machine it for the wheel.

The mitsu arm doesn't loosen up over time... and therefore doesn't float the valve off the seat.... and therefore doesn't have problems like this.

Having NO flow through the wastegate hole does not increase the temperature of the flapper. Think about having your valve lash set loose (for those of you familiar with engines other than neons/Evo's)... what does that do? It results in a burnt valve.... why? Because if you read anything about valvetrain the valve controls it's temperature through the guide and transferring heat through the seat. Of course this isn't a poppet valve, but the same principles apply.

What 94AWD is trying to say is that if you put a lot of preload the result is that at the same pressure the valve open less, and the exhaust gasses must pass in a smaller area.
But I think that it cannot be the case of the HKS turbo.

I bench test actuator opening before I install any turbo. so yes that is what i am saying. You would be surprised at how little the valve actually lifts even when adjusted like factory wants it. ad three or four turns additional preload and valve will barely leave its seat at all. the video shows the arm is warped. obviously from heat. if the arm warps from heat it will make the actuator appear to have become out of adjustment. I am quite sure the actuator arm is not stretching. its not exposed to any real heat. so its just a matter of decided which is happening first. I choose to believe the arm is warping from heat first. makes far more sense

if actuator stretches first this would allow soggy boost response and allow the valve to open much farther than normal since its starting position is no longer even on the seat. both would heat the valve and arm much less since gasses would have much larger area to go through.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/100_1074.jpg

I bought a HKS7460 and I put it on my car and ran it for a few months.

The actuator rod WITH THE LOCK NUT TIGHT... would loosen over time. I retightened it probably 10 times in the first month.

It would loosen to the point that when the car idled it would rattle against the seat and be so audible that we stopped doing dyno pulls on the dyno because it sounded like a rod bearing.

So yes it loosens over time. Yes the actuator arm sees some temperature and yes the material properties of stainless degrade with temperature.

I ran E85... so my EGT's were pretty low... and I ran a lot of boost 36+psi. So I wasn't wastegating a ton of exhaust.

I''ve ran the HKS for about 1 year, around 26psi, daily driving, autox, and a few HPDEs this past summer. I haven't had isues with the turbo at all, and its not showing any signs of problems. I don't have the KAI version either, being I was one of the first to pick up the kit when it was released with the cam package. I haven't had R/T's issues with the wastegate actuator, but I also agree with the design not being ideal. However, I'm still using mine and its holding 26psi decently.

I must have about 20k on it by now... No issues to date. It's a DD so it rarely sees sustained beatings, maybe a couple seconds of 30 psi here and there, but nothing like RR.

I'm honestly not sure if I would even know if the WG was warped, I have my WGDC (3 port) down in the 30s in some places to keep it happy and it still pulls mighty hard down low.

and i was thinking of picking up this turbo for my track car :crap:

sigh
 

i was thinking the same. 10-15min blast around a racetrack

I don't think mine is a Kia version. I picked it up from Ivey early September 2010, installed it a week later and drove to Ivey for a tune.

The first thing we noticed, that the W/G's Rod was loose from the factory; it was tightened up and the car was tuned.

After a couple of track events, I noticed that the lock-nuts/adjustment threads backed out a little, and the rod was loose again. It was tightened again with a good amount of force and some locktite and it's been fine for over a year now.

I DD and track my car. As a DD, I normally run 93 pump gas and around 28 psi of boost. On the track, I drop the boost to 25-26 and mix a couple gallons of 100 octane with every tank full of 93.

Is my flapper warped? I don't see it being warped and making 440/412 on 93 pump gas but, I could be wrong.

Nice numbers 18bora, torque/power comes on really early.

Keep in mind the KAI is 90 days out and is going to retail for 2800. I think most of the discussion about this turbo, unless you are an HKS parts collector, rules it out of use when there are less expensive, more capable, domestic units available.

I'm having the exact same problem (WGA rod that lengthens? stretching? itself) ON A STOCK TURBO.
I have never encountered this problem before, sounds very strange to me.

Started another thread about the WG preload issues

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post10091829

Sounds the same. Have you pulled the turbo off yet?

Yes, I have pulled off one of the two 7460, and there's nothing wrong, it only miss the preload.
I have also changed the exhaust housing on the OEM turbo (the one on which the WG flapper completely came off). I cannot inspect the flapper because it isn't there anymore, but the housing is OK, only a bit worn because the flapper has rotated for too much time, worn but flat, not warped.

Bumping this up.
I've had the offer to purchase a 7460 with the damaged flapper for a good price.
Is it worth purchasing this turbo, replacing the flapper with another and going again? Or even trying to adapt another actuator to suit?

Or am I just throwing money up the wall that I will eventually have to re-spend?

Car see's hard street duties and ~6-8 road race days a year which consist of 5+ 10-15min sessions in a day.

I would like to know if any one has machined out the 10.5 hot side to work with The HKS

hi all. my friends got one gt2 for sale. on the turbo exhaust outlet there i can see some oil stain. is it normal?

No it's not normal.

The HKS I had puked the oil seal and HKS won't fix or replace the turbo.

DO NOT BUY FROM HKS!!!!

ditto :)

Hmm.. I was considering getting hks turbo as my next turbo

Don't do it. Buy from a manufacturer in the states that will warranty, service, and repair their products when/if they fail.

Buy from CBRD or FP.... my opinion.

Nuf said!{thumbup}

I have been considering cbrd bbk. I recently purchased an atp gtx3076r but nasa classification change next year means ill have to reduce power. The gtx3076r is too big for the power level I'm looking to run.

Honda: BB, or JB BBK?

BBK-Full ftw honda-guy.

Im thinking the bb for faster spool and reliability. My friend has the hks and that thing spool amazingly fast. That's why was looking at getting one.

The HKS turbo definitely spools amazingly well. I have the original version, and it has been pretty strong. I don't have the wastegate issue like some people are mentioning. Having heard all the comments on warrantee, I'm a bit concerned of being able to find rebuild parts when the time comes.

Honda-guy,

I've dyno'd my car next to Jeremy's Evo 9 (same mods except he had the BBK JB when I had the HKS 7460... dyno's were literally overlayed on top of each other)

If you want the HKS 7460... buy the BBK Full Ball Bearing unit. You'll be waaaay happier!

Let me know if we can help guys-

we CAN do a BB full with A/S cover if you want-

cb

cat's ass IMO.

Hey Chad, how much is an A/S cover for a JB BBK-Full by itself? Also is there a conversion cost reduction from a BBK-Full JB to a BBK-3B? I'll be at the very least throwing an A/S cover on the BBK when I build this 2.3L.

our cover is $158.50

there is a conversion discount but it isnt much, since we replace pretty much everything in the turbo-

cb

That's not too bad though as long as you can use the turbo. :) I'll give you a call over the winter and see what the best choice for me is.

I have a HKS GT II 7460R...on a 2.0L at 32psi spike on mustang dyno the car made 412AWHP and 385AWTQ...on a 2.3L at 28psi same modes but on a dyno jet the card made 497AWHP and 498AWTQ...stopped at 28psi because of fuel pump issue...plan was to go to 32psi...so very shortly I will post a dyno graph once the car is retuned...I am hoping for mid 550 TQ and HP...I have no problems with this turbo...the TQ is insane and the spool on 2.3L is below 2600RPM...I have the original verison that came with the cams...the wastgate does not get loose like some have described here...Had my hotside ported and coated by MAP...not sure if that helps or not...at the end of the day ALL tubos had some sort of problems...for every failer there are tons of success stories out there...the only thing that sux is probably lack of support by HKS since after all we are not in Japan...a bunch of rally guys are running this turbo and make crazy power...not sure why couple of failures described here would turn people away from this turbo...but to each his own...

would like to see dyno and full mod list for 497/498 pull!

I will have a new dyno once the car is retuned...I lost the 412AWHP/385AWTQ mustang dyno on a 2.0L...and the 497AWHP/498AWTQ dyno jet on a 2.3L was done locally by the shop (APM Auto Performance Modifications) out of Chicago that put everything for me...they were suppose to e-mail me a copy but never did...doesn't really matter to me because they stopped at 28psi and didn't go to 32psi like I wanted until I reslove my fuel issue...I will definately post a dyno graph once the car is retuned...should be sometime this month...I hope...I was still very impressed with the power given the boost level...

As far as the mods go...the most important things I guess...
fresh 2.3L 9:0:1 motor
HKS cams...once that came with the HKS 7640R turbo
MAP ported stock exhaust Manifold
MAP ported stock intake Manifold Rev 2
the car is SD on E-85
AMS TBE and intercooler...
65mm TB
double pumper with I think 1200cc injectors...not sure on this had to switch them out during original build but they are by no means maxed out as I was at 69% duty cycle according to the shop...

that's about it...notice how switching to from the 2.0L to 2.3L the TQ jumped so much from 385AWTQ on mustang...thats about roughly 430AWTQ on dyno jet with 12% loss between the two dynos...to 498AWTQ on dyno jet...68TQ difference and about 38AWHP difference...

By my estimate additional 4psi should net me additional 60-80 HP...with that set up...we'll see...

I thought about running a spike to 34psi...but seems the turbo runs out of efficiancy at about 32-33psi...I think the people in this thread that had issues with the turbo ran it past its efficiancy level...at the end of the day the turbo blows hot air...perhaps that had something to do with the failures...I know R/T Ernie ran his turbo at 36+psi...maybe he can tell you guys more...

Here is mine..

Is that on a 2.3L or 2.0L? so how do you like 4,000 RPM powarband ;)...this turbo kicks ass...how much boost were you running? on e85? what cams?

2.4LR
E85
26psi
cosworth M2

I see...why did you stop at 26psi of boost? Currently I am at 28psi...I wanted over 30...close to 32psi...just curious...I have a 2.3L with the HKS cams that came with the kit...I think the turbo can take more boost...

I ran 36psi on a 2.0L... that's not the same as 36psi on a 2.4L. Keath's setup is pretty awesome. My car just happened to make 36psi... I can tell you... with a 2.3L you're not going to be getting another 40-60 hp if you're already running 26-28psi on a 2.3/2.4L

I was on a stock block and kept the torque low intentionally.. funny because i still do that on my built engine.

You were also feeding the turbo a lot higher oil pressure than it was designed to see.

The orifice plate designed by HKS to limit the oil flow was engineered around seeing oil pressure feed from the head, not from the oil filter housing.

Per the HKS engineer and Sean Ivey... I was good with running a FP restrictor/oil filter on the feed line to drop the pressure from the oil filter housing... AND THE HKS HAS AN INTERNAL OIL RESTRICTOR IN THE TURBO. They said no problem.

take that :lol:

Ditto... if they said it would work putting inline flow resistance than I would imagine they at least pondered it for half a second.

An orifice plate is just a resistance to flow that is used to create a pressure drop across it. Double the pressure and the pressure on the secondary of the orifice plate is now much higher than it was previous (dependent on the load of course, no load = no pressure drop across orifice plate, etc.). Without knowing what the flow resistance is through your inline filter and FP restrictor, there is no way to know what the actual pressure your oil seals were seeing throughout the rpm range. However, you went outside the original engineering of the oiling of the turbo without any calculations to back up your assertions it would run within the design of the seals.

It really is pointless to discuss this. But, I don't think that your oil seals popped like a ping pong ball out of a Thai stripper's snoo can be implicative of the quality of the seals in general.

Granted, I am now stuck with one of these turbos that I had FP clean the oiling passages out from engine bearing material. They said they would feel okay putting it in their car as they don't believe the bearing material made it into the turbo bearings... but I am at least going to have the money ready for a rebuild before I chuck it in and have it tossed on a dyno.

So if its a 2.3L the turbo works harder? for example if I am running 28psi on 2.3L how much boost would that equal on a 2.0L? I thought boost was boost but the highber displacement motor didn't need all that to make power... When my car was a 2.0L...I ran a spike of 32psi...and taper to 28psi...or so...had no problems with the turbo as its efficiency is about 32-34psi...although I did see people push it to like 38psi but all it did is blow hot air...TQ went up though...I know each set up is different but for every psi of boost doesn't your HP increase by like 15HP ( I am rounding right now) so if I am at 28psi and want to run lets say 32psi...wouldn't that increase by like 60HP? correct me if I am wrong...I know that each set up might be a little more or less but that seems to be the median...I guess the dyno will tell...,however, I do not want to set up out efficiency level of the turbo to make more HP if it comes down to it...what do you think?

what the **** are you talking about? I called up FP and asked them what oil pressure I would see at the turbo using their line and their filter... same one I used on my Stock 9 turbo, FP Green, and FP Reds... never blew a single seal.

I ran the SAME oil feed line which Robert says will be the same pressure to at most 10psi higher than the OEM feed at the head, but MORE stable oil pressure. So if you think 10psi more oil pressure PRE HKS restrictor is going to dynomite the oil seals...you need to get your head checked. I was running 10-40amo... not 20-50 like some of the built engines ER makes. furthermore I still had OIL SQUIRTERS... i will generate LESS oil pressure at the turbo than Keath's ER built 2.4L car. Yet his turbo hasn't bit the dust.

Your guestimate holds no water.

The turbospeed is higher to achieve the same pressure against a larger displacement engine. Means you're running out of compressor at lower pressure ratios. I haven't spent time to think about what pressure is equal to what on 2 different engines. If we had turbospeed data... we could correlate, but we don't. so meh for benchracing.

The power your pick up per psi of boost depends on where you are on your compressor map. If you're in the sweet spot of the efficiency island you may see 15psi. Being as you're running 28psi on a 2.3L... you're at or near the edge of the compressor map (where you heat the air up to make more pressure) you may only gain 5hp or less per psi of boost increased... up until the turbine flow is choked and your compressor is no longer helping.

stock block crazy tq curve here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...safe-mode.html

the wga vac line must have blown off.. thats all i can think, but read the thread and you will see where its actually being tuned at and the blue line showing crazy mode with basically no boost control.

the turbo is definitely impressive downlow, but it does seem to cap off sooner then others. it drops off very fast.. even opposed to a 71 HTA.