As a racer who has autocrossed both abs and non abs versions of the evo, I must say that I believe the non abs version is noticably quicker. If you are a good driver, and are really using all the car in the corners, the inside rear will be completely unweighted going into turns under braking, causing the cars abs system to go into ice mode. (no brakes). If you are entering the corners like a wuss, this doesn't apply.

Mark

 

Non-ABS is supposed to stop sooner (with experienced drivers) than abs equipped cars (assuming the ground is dry). Believe it or not, i'm doing a physics problem concerning that. But in wet weather and compared to the overall average driver, it's a different story.

 

I remember reading that ABS was originally left off the RS because Mitsubishi engineers couldn't get it to work properly with the front LSD and the MCD - and not because it was just a track model shaved for simplicity and weight. Of course this info was not official from Mitsu. But now since all the Evos have the front LSD, but an ACD you can have ABS? But still not available on the RS? So is it now a weight or cost issue? Or do driving purists not want it?

 

It is a racing issue. It is not faster on a track with abs.
Mark

 

ding ding ding! we have a winner!

 

So a more accurate weight difference according to RRE weights is..

GSR: 3236+35= 3271lbs

RS: 3181lbs

MR: 3356-60= 3296lbs


RS is 90lbs less than GSR
MR is 25lbs more than GSR



With how small these weight differences are, on most tracks other issues (ie downforce, gearing, suspension tune etc) would be much more important.. Fact:If the suspension isn't tuned for the weight then it will not outhandle a similar car with one that is. Fact: a good ABS is good on a track, where you don't want to lock up the wheels or get sideways. skilled driver or not.. Mitsubishi's sport ABS is good. On loose surfaces (or probably autocross where you toss the car around constantly) I think most drivers would like to have better control of wheel lock up to drift easier so they may opt for no ABS.
I don't think mitsu set our cars up for anything but tarmac from the factory, despite what's the ACD indicator says on your guage panel. And braking well into a corner while making a pass for example, I think you would want ABS.

To say that the 6 spd is worse for track is an unfounded statement. Different tracks would call for different gearing. If you want to refer to tests, MT found that the 6spd worked wonders around Willow Springs. The MR was 2 seconds faster per lap around the track then the 2004 RS (I believe it was an RS) that they brought with them. I believe Best Motoring also found it to be better suited for the track they used in the Evo strikes back.

Really if your going to mod the hell out of your car (like ALOT, where you'll need a revised or rebuilt transmission anyways), why not get the cheapest version? I think thats where the advantage of the RS is. They're all great cars but aside from a few lightweight panels of glass it has little that the other models don't. For 2005 I like the RS over the GSR because it has the MR's roof, in the real world where we drive on tarmac and roll our windows up and down occasionally I'll take the MR over either of the others.

..
To add to the ABS argument, incase there is still doubt. Simply put, ABS allows you to stand on the brakes while turning and well into a corner without wheel lock or getting sideways. It allows drivers to brake later into corners, which is a must for overtaking. Even skilled driver's aren't perfect and it removes some margin of error.. Many motorsport series have banned ABS because of the advantage it gives to the driver (or if you'd rather put it this way, to provide a greater test of driver skill). It was used in F1 untill 1990 until it was banned. F1 cars now compensate for the absence of ABS by using carbon brake rotors and pads which can opperate normally (without lockup or brake failure) at MUCH higher temporatures. The Ferrari Enzo has carbon pads and rotors too, unfortunately just the pads and rotors on them cost as much as our Evo. So needless to say the Evo doesn't have this advantage and would utilize ABS on track to it's favor.

 

There are 6spd GSR evo's in japan? I could have sworn the GSR in there was a 5spd... hmm, well that's something new

 

Let's see. Where to start with this.

1.) Comparing the abs system on an EVO with that employed on an F1 car is just ludicrous. Just the ABS system that was employed back then on an F1 car was easily several times the price of a whole EVO. It was way more complex, and acurately programmed for racing. Plus F1 cars don't generally have a wheel in the air under braking.

2.) A front heavy car will lift the inside rear wheel on corner entry when braking.

3.) When previously mentioned wheel is in the air, and brakes are still being applied, abs computer goes into ice mode, thereby removing virtually all braking force from all wheels until said wheel is back on the ground.

4.) Like I said before, if you are driving an abs equipped EVO, and are not experiencing ice mode under braking, you are not driving it very fast.

5.) No, it is not just an autocross thing, it is a physics thing.

6.) It is not just an evo thing either, virtually every other front heavy car I have raced that has abs, has the exact same issue.

7.) You are somewhat right in your analysis of rain however, as low grip situations tend to eliminate the ice mode problem, as not enough grip is generated to unload an inside rear tire.

Mark

 

http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html

I managed to find something about real world abs tests. Although this is done with a motorcycle, it illustrates pretty well what could happen in dry/wet conditions.
Skidding to a stop stops sooner in snow, ice or sand because in snow, ice, or sand something packs up in front of the tires.

Likewise, you can let Sir Issac Newton help you using computers and ABS.
It depends on the which ABS systems you currently have. The new ones are quick, the old ones were slower. New ABS systems (the ones on our cars) actualy knows what a stock car, with stock tires on a assumed surface, can theoreticly slow a wheel down so it trys to keeps the change in wheel speed at a specified amount.

(which means if you put on sticky tires it will not nessasaraly stop harder then with stock tires, but if you put on smaller tires like on your car, the ABS will activate sooner, and if you put on bigger tires, diameter, the ABS will activate later)

which explanins why OLD ABS systems didn't work as good as new ABS systems. They didn't have the resolution of the wheel, and couldn't compute it as fast.

P.S. Continually braking while gassing in a corner isn't the best thing to do all the time. I haven't tried it at high speeds, but I could feel it shifting the weight of the car at low speeds. To counter understeer I'd just ease off the gas while in the turn and gass more after you hit the apex or turn the wheel left and right at the right intervals to regain control if my entry is too hot. I'd just try and conserve those pads and majorily brake before the turn and ease off the gas until the apex.

 

yeah the true GSR which is in japan gets a six speed tranny and the super ayc

 

All 04 RS EVO's have A/C as standard equipment.

 

-this is not correct, at every track i have been to: lime rock, watkins glen, pocono, VIR, you spend at least some part of the lap in 5th. perhaps at a very short, tight layout like streets of willow or tskubo(?) (the track in all the best motoring videos) 4th is sufficiant. but the fact is the tall 5th gear, and the significant gap between 4th and 5th really hurt the evo at the track. if you shift at 6500rpm (in a stock evo the power is already fadijng at that point), you will be at approximately 4700 in 5th, and the car just labors down the straight. i was at VIR in the beginning of november and spent an entire session running w/ a guy in '05 STI, bone stock. our laps time were comparable but once i made the 4-5 shift on the back straight he would walk away from me. the shorter 5th gear in the MR would clearly help.

 

RS comes in 5 and 6 speed in Japan, I wasn't referring exclusively to the GSR, or didn't mean to at least. Just between the 5 and 6spd Evo VIIIs. The 5spd RS over there is alot like our current GSR, has the spoiler and I think ACD w/o AYC. Both the 5 and 6 spd versions of the RS and a 6spd GSR along w/ some STIs are raced in the Evo Strikes Back DVD one of you mentioned and he 6 spd seemed to be preferred.

I respect your opinions on ABS.
Here is an article on F1 braking systems. It sounds really like the ABS they used is really not so superior to what is used in alot of cars today. The real difference seems to lie in the materials used for the actual brake components. I understand these cars are nothing like road cars neither are many rally cars. Saying ABS is just not an advantage on a track is a pretty big statement though.

http://www.formula1.com/insight/tech...fo/11/477.html

I'm not really referring to 60 to 0 straight line braking either. I know driver aids aren't popular among some enthusiasts for whatever reasons, but still, there is no such thing as a perfect driver. Late braking occurs in wheel to wheel racing, and the possibility of wheel lock or decreased braking force mid corner is I guess a personal preference then. You do have more experience driving these cars then I do if you've driven both of them so I'll trust your opinion. I've just heard a very different opinion before.

 

I don't know about the EVO,but in a couple of different tests, the STI suffered on 0-60 because of the shift points caused by having closer ratios.

It's all about gearing. On any given track, having the four or five right gears is better than having six wrong gears.

 

Agreed. ABS cars can suffer misreads because of tire lift.