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1g 6bolt 4g63, 2g 7bolt 4g63, evo 4g63

 
Old Mar 22, 2005, 04:06 PM
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1g 6bolt 4g63, 2g 7bolt 4g63, evo 4g63

hi. just registed as a new user. wanted to ask some questions about the EVO 8 4g63. i dont know what the diffrences are from my DSM! so here what i'd like to know. i thought it might also be good to group some of this information together so other people can unserstand the diffrences. so here goes.

EVO intake manifold, how does it compare to the 1g dsm manifold?
TB, what size diamitor is it? 60mm?
intercooler, and intercooler pipes? bar-plate? tube fin? 2.25in?
BOV, compared to the 1g bov is it more effecent? base boost 19psi?
Turbo tdo5h 16g "AKA" EvoIII16g to us DSM'ers, right?
Any Tranny problems like the 2g's? snapping 3rd gear at 400hp like the 2g?

any considerable diffrences in the interanls? i've heard the Cams are hollow. how about everything else? what are safe max HP #'s with the stock evo block/head before running into problems?

I've listed some diffrences between the DSM engines to help show what i'm kinda intrested in knowing.

1g 89/92 6bolt 4g63 no crankwalk, stong 500hp rods, crappy pistons, air/oil cooled, better bov, awsome intake/tb/head, 3bolt rearend, cas on cams, 13b, 14b turbos.

1g 92-94 7bolt 4g63 some crankwalk. 400hp internals, water/oil cooler,

2g 95(eprom)&96 4g63, Crankwalk up the ***. 400hp internals, better tranny & stronger 4bolt rear end and axles, better exhaust manny, CAM sensor located stupidly. ecu's work better with some new resistors, better fuel pump and injectors. t25 POS with crappy restrictive uicp, licp siclencer, and leaky plastic bov. TB/intake/head flow less then 1g. some other minor things.

2g 97-99 4g63 better styling, cam sensor on the cam!!!, the best 2g's made.

Evo 8 4g63????? how does it compare?

Last edited by scottsee; Mar 22, 2005 at 04:08 PM.
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 08:35 PM
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there has to be alot of people who know these things. i know this fourm isn't 4g63 stupid!!
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 09:26 AM
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you can't compare an american made, chrysler built "Mopar" to an actual Mitsubishi imported from japan. Although they are both badged Mitsu's they are 2 very different manufacturers using a few of the same parts.
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MaxR
you can't compare an american made, chrysler built "Mopar" to an actual Mitsubishi imported from japan. Although they are both badged Mitsu's they are 2 very different manufacturers using a few of the same parts.

right now it's very difficult for me to use a verb which places you in an intelligent or positive light regarding this comment.

now, on to your ?s...

Originally Posted by scottsee
hi. just registed as a new user. wanted to ask some questions about the EVO 8 4g63. i dont know what the diffrences are from my DSM! so here what i'd like to know. i thought it might also be good to group some of this information together so other people can unserstand the diffrences. so here goes.

EVO intake manifold, how does it compare to the 1g dsm manifold?
TB, what size diamitor is it? 60mm?
intercooler, and intercooler pipes? bar-plate? tube fin? 2.25in?
BOV, compared to the 1g bov is it more effecent? base boost 19psi?
Turbo tdo5h 16g "AKA" EvoIII16g to us DSM'ers, right?
Any Tranny problems like the 2g's? snapping 3rd gear at 400hp like the 2g?

any considerable diffrences in the interanls? i've heard the Cams are hollow. how about everything else? what are safe max HP #'s with the stock evo block/head before running into problems?

I've listed some diffrences between the DSM engines to help show what i'm kinda intrested in knowing.

1g 89/92 6bolt 4g63 no crankwalk, stong 500hp rods, crappy pistons, air/oil cooled, better bov, awsome intake/tb/head, 3bolt rearend, cas on cams, 13b, 14b turbos.

1g 92-94 7bolt 4g63 some crankwalk. 400hp internals, water/oil cooler,

2g 95(eprom)&96 4g63, Crankwalk up the ***. 400hp internals, better tranny & stronger 4bolt rear end and axles, better exhaust manny, CAM sensor located stupidly. ecu's work better with some new resistors, better fuel pump and injectors. t25 POS with crappy restrictive uicp, licp siclencer, and leaky plastic bov. TB/intake/head flow less then 1g. some other minor things.

2g 97-99 4g63 better styling, cam sensor on the cam!!!, the best 2g's made.

Evo 8 4g63????? how does it compare?
manifold - the evo manifold is a happy medium between the 1g and the 2g. the runners are basically the same shape/size as the 2g, but there's a "bulge" of extra area in the middle on top around the size of a dime (it's really tough to describe). but volume is between the 1g and 2g.. that makes it easy.

tb - not 100% sure, but 58 or 60 comes to mind (someone else chime in here)

bov - much like the 2g, but it holds to 19 (barely), not as bad as the 2g though. many people use the 1g as an upgrade on the evo as well.

turbo - tough to compare, as it's a twin scroll. but physical size is simlar to the evo3 big16, and the flow chart is "similar"

tranny - stronger like a 1g, feel like a 2g. most tranny problems with the evo seem to be related to initial tolerances used when it was originally assembled. TRE is doing wonders with the stock tranny. but no specific problems like with the 2g. it's definatly a step up. The transfer case has had problems. mainly the front differential. it's been known to break and take out the rest of the tc. (this is only 03 & 04).

engine - internals are quite stout compared to dsms. the cams are hollow. the stock motor has held up to 550hp (please correct this if i'm wrong), but i wouldn't keep it that way for long. like running a stock dsm motor to 450...

the evo 4g63 is a 7bolt w/balance shafts, but no worries of crankwalk like the early 2gs.

the best way to describe it...

everything you loved about the dsms from various generations, is in the evo, and has been taken to the next level.

and everything you hated about the dsms, has been fixed/improved.



feel free to add/correct

and to correct you on the very first comment... the only mopar/chrysler motor ever put into a dsm, was the 420a, from 95-99, which was also put in the neon, and is not even close in design to a 4g63... which is, and has always been, a mitsubishi motor. put an evo 1-3 engine bay, next to a 1g dsm, or a galant vr4. done and done.

Last edited by koolade9; Mar 24, 2005 at 10:53 AM.
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxR
you can't compare an american made, chrysler built "Mopar" to an actual Mitsubishi imported from japan. Although they are both badged Mitsu's they are 2 very different manufacturers using a few of the same parts.
ROFL omg man that was funny. Do you know anything about the car your driving? ... if you even own a evo.

sooo... stfu cause scotsee's questions are actually really good. especially for us dsmers!
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 05:00 PM
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MAXR is refuring to a 420A chrystler dsm engine. i dont know why becasue the thread is labled 4g63... MAXR where in washinton do you live??

Great information koolade. im intrested in knowing if there are any airflow # on the Evo's intake manifold.. i know the engien is reverse mounted east/west from its big brothers DSM 4g63. i also wonder if its possable the two bolt paterns match up to each other. the piping would be a nightmare and pressure drop would increase. but i wonder if anyone has used a 1g (60mm tb and 1g intake) as an upgrade. Thats why im asking. check out these bench flow #'s





as you can see the 1g intake has AWSOME flow # in the midrange but puke out uptop. im really intrested in knowing how the evo's intake compares.


i havent been able to find alot of information about the fmic that these evo's have. i'm intrested in learning what CFM flow rate it is effently supplying. what there effecency's are and if there are bar/plate, tube/fin and have any problems with heat soak, or pressure drop. they seem to be a good matched stock intercooler from EVO. if there actually mitsubishi's. i wouldn't be supprised if there somone elses core's. anyone??

it's stupid mitsubishi is still producing that retarted plastic POS bov. why?? it is indeed simular koolade9 to the 2g's plastic bov?? if they are going to come out with a 5year 60,000mile warrenty they might as well build that simple gadget out of somthing durable like they did with the 1g's.

how does the Evo's clutch perform? what kind of clutch is it? high pressure? does anyone know what it's stock power/tq ratings are? does it fail preaty quick? is it included in the Warrenty (oh sure!!)

What are the stock fuel injectors? 510cc? does the fpr supply a return line? what are the flow # on the fuel pump compared to these # provided by RRE?

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/f...pflowrates.htm

i've read that the evo's MAF has a 25% larger air volume compassity then the 50lb/min 2g MAF . there are allready people rewireing their MAF harnesses to make the evo's maf fit in their 2g's. has there been any restrictions that anyone incounterd or any problems with the MAF in general? just asking becasue it will come up sooner or later!!

do these evo have water/oil or air/oil coolers?

what has everyone seen as accepable o2 volt numbers when logging there o2s? 1g's seem to run highest timming advancements when air/fuel o2 are around .90-.92 volts while 2g's run seem to like to run around .94-.96

How many fuel trims do you guys have in your ecu. 1gs have 3 a lft, mft and hft. while the 2gs just have lft and hft. just currious.

i'll think of more questions. Thanks for reading.

Last edited by scottsee; Mar 24, 2005 at 05:15 PM.
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 07:07 PM
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well deserved bump.
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 09:43 PM
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i just dont think people care on an evo fourm much about the older 4g63's no big-e..
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxR
you can't compare an american made, chrysler built "Mopar" to an actual Mitsubishi imported from japan. Although they are both badged Mitsu's they are 2 very different manufacturers using a few of the same parts.
i see you don't research enuff. DSM's were built in the US under JAPANESE supervision using 99% JAPANESE motor/drivetrain pieces. have your knowledge before attacking Young Jedi...
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 09:52 PM
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& for the record, i've had 2 DSM's (92 eclipse GS, & 98 talon tsi fwd).
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Old Mar 24, 2005, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by scottsee
What are the stock fuel injectors? 510cc?
stick injectors are 550cc. RRE's info is pretty accurate. xcellent ?'s though. keep em coming...
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Old Mar 25, 2005, 02:18 AM
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I will not reveal anything that DSM "tuners" could profit from, but I will let people know that imported Mitsubishi's and DSM's are very different. Live in denial, I don't care, ignorance is bliss until you hire a DSM tuner to work on a Mitsubishi.
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Old Mar 25, 2005, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by housedj
stick injectors are 550cc. RRE's info is pretty accurate. xcellent ?'s though. keep em coming...
Which car?

1g and 2g DSM = 450cc for manual and 390cc for auto.
Evo 3 = 510cc
Evo 4 and up = 560cc (not 100% sure, may need correction).
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Old Mar 25, 2005, 02:55 AM
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Intake. Has 2g port size. Mitsu sided with "motoman" on this issue. 1G ports are too large. Runners are shorter at 9" so they dont lay down at 6500 like 1g/2g at 12". They pull to 7500-8000 very nicely. Not as much need for sheet intake.

TB is 60 like 1G. But is NT style. Tapered inlet helps flow. Throttle shaft is half the size 1G. throttle plate is thinner. Flows like 61mm.

BOV. who goves a hoot? its plastic

A/F meter. superior two channel design. 2g style has four channels. less friction because there are less walls to rub against. 20% more flow would be my estimate.

Turbo. just plain bada**. performs like a 20g. twin scroll design rocks. exhaust mani is just as killer with design that divides runners to take advantage of twin scroll design. Double wastegate valves and huge flowing 02 housing.

Tranny is at least 50% stronger than dsm stlye. Thsi means it is reliable to daily 600ft/lbs torque. DSM can handle 400. T-case equally as strong , except for the spider gears in the centerdiff are weak link like 1g/2g.

Engine is just plain tweaked. 8.8 flat top pistons with .050 reduced deck height over 1g style. pistons are far lighter for rpm reliabilty. cams are hollow. exhaust valves are sodium filled. uses 2g rods that are small. they are more reliable cause they reduced the weight of the piston. 2cc smaller combustion chamber. valve springs, retainers, followers all lighter. less spring pressure needed for less drag and more hp.

7 bolt crank is same soft material as 2g. The full girdle block is very stiff and supports high horsepower very reliably. the center thrust is single sided style. in short they didn't do anything to eliminate crankwalk. when these engines get some miles on them and the oil pressure begins to drop at idle they will get crankwalk just like 2g cars. there are posts from those chiming in from other countries that the evo4 crankwalks like crazy. same engine as e8 with more use.
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Old Mar 25, 2005, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MaxR
I will not reveal anything that DSM "tuners" could profit from, but I will let people know that imported Mitsubishi's and DSM's are very different. Live in denial, I don't care, ignorance is bliss until you hire a DSM tuner to work on a Mitsubishi.
????

"ignorance is bliss until you hire a dsm tuner to work on a mitsubishi..... ok.... David Buschur posts in the evolutionm forums all the time.. why dont you have a conversation with him about that?
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