Notices
Evo General Discuss any generalized technical Evo related topics that may not fit into the other forums. Please do not post tech and rumor threads here.
Sponsored by: RavSpec - JDM Wheels Central

Vortex W/ no wing still functional?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 20, 2005 | 04:58 PM
  #31  
mike69's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
From: NA
I don't think the money's worth it, but I'm gonna test that shark fin thing.
Reply
Old May 20, 2005 | 10:34 PM
  #32  
mifesto's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (58)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 0
From: Princeton, NJ
Originally Posted by wEstSidE
I don't think the money's worth it, but I'm gonna test that shark fin thing.
even with extensive testing, they found absolutely MINIMAL reduction in drag or lift... i mean really cant be properly quantified in real life. i love my VG cuz i know it is helping even if INSIGNIFICANT but to be very honest the biggest reason is because it looks hardcore (and cool). we are all kidding ourselves if you think the VG and non-VG evo have ANY difference to improve a straight line OR handling performance hey ur right maybe VG will give you a .01 mph increase in top speed? maybe it will save you a few millliliter of gas per tank? hey i bet you a more effective way is to go on a diet and loose 15 lbs then to expect the VG to make any real difference.

oh come on! lol i love the VG as much as the rest of you but lets just accept it as a 'cool' piece and move on hehe
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 08:37 AM
  #33  
althemean's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
Originally Posted by tahoeacr
The Mitsi tests were at 110mph. Without a wing it will create no downforce. What it does in simple terms is by disturbing the air at the top of the roof, the air then goes down closer to the bottom of the glass/start of the trunck. This allows more air to flow more effective under/over the wing.
Without a wing it would create more drag at the top of the car but allow the air to close up better behind the car. Net effect would probably be a small reduction in overall drag coeffecient.

If you're looking to create some downforce, you could do a 60mm spoiler at 20 degree angle. This could actually reduce the cars drag while reducing rear lift. Steeper angles would create more downforce and start to create more drag. This is from CFD testing I've seen.
I am an airplane tech. This is probable the most correct statement made about the airflow cuase and effect of the VG. Most specifically "Without a wing it would create more drag at the top of the car but allow the air to close up better behind the car. " There is such a thing as parasitic drag, which the VG will cause. Sticking any item into an airflow will cause this, not eliminate drag.

Aircraft use VG to hold the airlfow closer to the wing to make the airfoil more effeicient, the same must apply to car as fluid dynamics are laws of physics.

Thats my opinion
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 11:06 AM
  #34  
trinydex's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,072
Likes: 8
From: not here
the amount of air resistance it introduces could very well be offset by how much air it closes up behind. if you know your fluid dynamics you'll know that that it the most aerodynamic shape is an almond looking thing. this would be because as it goes through the fluid it seperates the fluid and when the fluid rejoins it "pushes" the object forward. that's the whole concept behind lowering drag coefficients and it shouldn't be ignored.
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 11:14 AM
  #35  
tke_413's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (27)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 1
From: McKinney, TX
I have one one mine (with the wing) and only notice a difference on the highway. Not sure why you'd install it if you don't have a wing (it breaks up the air to work WITH the wing), but at highway speeds if feels like your back end is planted to the road.
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 07:06 PM
  #36  
althemean's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
my evo is just a gsr model. i would agree that the benefits of having the VG are worth the money. It just makes sence aerodynamically. not surprising that another peice of aircraft hardware is making it to our cars.
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 07:24 PM
  #37  
quiksilverevo26's Avatar
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: nor cal
VG helps guide air to the wing to keep the *** down on high speeds. So it would be more affective if you have a wing...Plus it gives the evo more of an aggressive look!
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 07:40 PM
  #38  
Warrtalon's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,790
Likes: 2
From: Long Island, NY
Originally Posted by mifesto
oh come on! lol i love the VG as much as the rest of you but lets just accept it as a 'cool' piece and move on hehe
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
The vortex generators act as eight tiny spoons reaching beyond the boundary layer to scoop a bit of the fast-moving freestream's momentum, spinning it down into the sluggish boundary layer to give it a kick, delaying separation. Although such devices are considered Band-Aids in the extreme in aircraft circles, here we're told they bump the rear wing's downforce by about five percent--objectively useful. Subjectively, our ribbon-watching from the rear seat suggested the vortex generators also were keeping the airflow more evenly delivered across the wing.
I'll take 5%.
Reply
Old May 21, 2005 | 08:10 PM
  #39  
mike69's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
From: NA
You got yours with the car.
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 12:58 AM
  #40  
titaniumkingpin's Avatar
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 835
Likes: 1
So would it be safe to say that the VG without a wing would be slightly better than having no wing at all?
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 05:07 AM
  #41  
HxllxMan's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: Tahiti, French Polynesia
VG will still improve the downforce without the CF wing
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 07:37 AM
  #42  
althemean's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
It will help but not a whole lot. it is a part designed to work in conjuction with the wing, not without one.
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 11:16 AM
  #43  
mifesto's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (58)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 0
From: Princeton, NJ
Originally Posted by HxllxMan
VG will still improve the downforce without the CF wing
no it will not. in the mitsu study of the VG on our evo's.... it showed it increased flow over the spoiler via the vortex to increase effective and reduce lift. mitsu 100% intended the VG WITH the spoiler, that cannot be contested. every windtunnel test they did was WITH the spoiler.
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 11:36 AM
  #44  
althemean's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
mifesto, where can i see this mitsu study? I agree with what youre saying. ive never come across anything from them on this though.
Reply
Old May 22, 2005 | 11:50 AM
  #45  
mifesto's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (58)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 0
From: Princeton, NJ
Originally Posted by althemean
mifesto, where can i see this mitsu study? I agree with what youre saying. ive never come across anything from them on this though.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf

i read this back in january and i remember some people were laughing at it claiming its all BS. no its not B.S. but then i laugh at people who think this thing will help them drive like shumacher

now i laugh at the people who think this thing is still great without a spoiler... hey a 0.006 decrease in drag coefficient... in another words whatever lil gas you save, you loose once you go full boost for 1 second

Last edited by mifesto; May 22, 2005 at 11:54 AM.
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:53 PM.