Amsoil or Mobil?
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
RE: Amsoil vs. Mobil 1
Actually Mobil 1 was/is fully synthetic and did/does use Group IV PAO's. I've heard claims they switched to group III, but haven't found anything hard evidence to suggest they did. Mobil1 still claims on their website that their oils are formulated with PAOs. Actually, Mobil 1 sued Castrol a while back because Castrol was claiming Syntec was synthetic but was making it from Group III hydrocracked oils. However, now Group III is considered synthetic, but it would be pretty hypocritical, and bad press by Mobil to switch to Group III when they made such a case over it way back. As for AMSOIL trying to discredit Mobil1, that's not true. They actually credited Mobil1 on their site a while back claiming it be the only other true synthetic, being a Group IV oil (can't find it anymore, but I remember reading it there.) and the only product that comes anywhere close to theirs in performance, however, they do maintain that their product is superior to Mobil1, and have a comparison with several other oils illustrating why.
I've been running Royal Purple in my car and have been very happy with it, but would like to try AMSOIL to see if I notice an improvement, however, I've been having trouble finding the amount I need at the only place near me that sells AMSOIL.
I've been running Royal Purple in my car and have been very happy with it, but would like to try AMSOIL to see if I notice an improvement, however, I've been having trouble finding the amount I need at the only place near me that sells AMSOIL.
Last edited by Diseasicon; Jul 18, 2007 at 01:44 PM. Reason: additional information
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere...
If you're considering AMSoil, also check out Eneos 0W-50. I'm running this full synth (group IV base) in my Evo without issue. A little expensive, but worth it in my opinion. Search for Eneos here, as there have been quite a few discussions about this oil.
I have run AMSoil on my VW GTI for 5 years and am running it on the EVO right now. Sold the GTI with 60K+ miles on it and ran ust like the first day I bought it. NEVER had a problem. Also run it in the tranny.
Last edited by Skim003; Jul 18, 2007 at 03:49 PM.
WOW.....
Some Truth Here, Some BS Here...
Before I go any further here, I want it known that I AM an AMSOIL Direct Jobber and have been selling AMSOIL Since 1984... NOBODY Beats My Prices... And few will ever be as straight up with you as I am..
www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx
AMSOIL is a company that names Names when it does testing. If these results were falsified, anyone of these companies would sue AMSOIL out of business.
Mobil 1 Was First ??? AMSOIL has been on the Market Since 1970, 1972 In it's current form of Marketing... Mobil 1 came along in 1974 with an oil that was "A 5W-20 Oil with the Characteristics of a 10W-40"... That is what was on the top of the can... Mobil almost ruined the market by pushing a product on the market that wasn't "all that". That could be where some of the BS started about Synthetics being Too Thin.... HOGWASH !!!! They have to fall into an area on a scale, there can be variances, but that would be with Synthetic or Petroleum. Basically, 5W-30 is 5W-30 whether Petroleum or Synthetic, PERIOD !!
AMSOIL is a Group IV PAO Synthetic.... It hasn't been a DiEster since around the mid 80's...
Mobile 1 Extended Drain 15,000 is a PAO Based oil yet, as far as I know, The other Mobil 1 Products, as far as I know, are now a Hydro-Cracked Products.
The Higher the number (Group III, IV, V) the better they are ???? Group V is Ester based products and although a good product have been replaced with PAO's with Esters for better performance..
It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum.
Eneos Oil..... Breaks Down too Fast and you get rattle... That is what happens when you have such a broad viscosity range in most cases.
10W-40 AMSOIL is NOT the recommended oil in your Turbo Charged Car or, for that matter, any of these cars. TSO 0W-30 is the recommended oil followed by ASL or ATM, 5W-30 and 10W-30 Respectively.
For those of you that already buy AMSOIL, send me a Mock order via Email with at least your Zip Code.... See where my Prices are !!!
Doc
Some Truth Here, Some BS Here...
Before I go any further here, I want it known that I AM an AMSOIL Direct Jobber and have been selling AMSOIL Since 1984... NOBODY Beats My Prices... And few will ever be as straight up with you as I am..
www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx
AMSOIL is a company that names Names when it does testing. If these results were falsified, anyone of these companies would sue AMSOIL out of business.
Mobil 1 Was First ??? AMSOIL has been on the Market Since 1970, 1972 In it's current form of Marketing... Mobil 1 came along in 1974 with an oil that was "A 5W-20 Oil with the Characteristics of a 10W-40"... That is what was on the top of the can... Mobil almost ruined the market by pushing a product on the market that wasn't "all that". That could be where some of the BS started about Synthetics being Too Thin.... HOGWASH !!!! They have to fall into an area on a scale, there can be variances, but that would be with Synthetic or Petroleum. Basically, 5W-30 is 5W-30 whether Petroleum or Synthetic, PERIOD !!
AMSOIL is a Group IV PAO Synthetic.... It hasn't been a DiEster since around the mid 80's...
Mobile 1 Extended Drain 15,000 is a PAO Based oil yet, as far as I know, The other Mobil 1 Products, as far as I know, are now a Hydro-Cracked Products.
The Higher the number (Group III, IV, V) the better they are ???? Group V is Ester based products and although a good product have been replaced with PAO's with Esters for better performance..
It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum.
Eneos Oil..... Breaks Down too Fast and you get rattle... That is what happens when you have such a broad viscosity range in most cases.
10W-40 AMSOIL is NOT the recommended oil in your Turbo Charged Car or, for that matter, any of these cars. TSO 0W-30 is the recommended oil followed by ASL or ATM, 5W-30 and 10W-30 Respectively.
For those of you that already buy AMSOIL, send me a Mock order via Email with at least your Zip Code.... See where my Prices are !!!
Doc
Last edited by Oil Doc; Jul 18, 2007 at 07:25 PM.
I always wonder when people say that a certain oil "runs great" in their car. How do you measure the performance of say mobil 1 to amsoil in your car?
I've always used mobil 1 in my cars and will continue to do so.
I've always used mobil 1 in my cars and will continue to do so.
The most important sentence in this thread from DOC:
"It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum."
I work in ATF formulation for a company that produces additive packages for fuels, driveline lubes, industrial lubes and crankcase lubes. Shell V-Power, Dex VI, current Ford Mercon fluids and numerous off the shelf lubes contain our products (Quaker, Shell, Penzoil etc.).
Now I am no expert in crankcase fromulation, but I will share some of my knowledge/experience. First of all Amsoil and Mobil 1 perform extremely well in engine testing. For instance the ASTM Sequence IIIG test is a high temp, high speed, high load test. The engine is a pushrod V6 with flat followers, built with high bearing clearance, it is intended to put extreme loads on the oil. For 100 hrs, Rpm is 3600, load is 250 NM and block oil temp is 150C (sump >160C). It simulates an 100K mile engine running wide open in the desert, pulling a trailer. We have tested Amsoil extensively as well as Mobil 1. They both exceed expectations tremedously. Both will run past the 100 hr mark and exhibit minimal viscosity increase, as well as minimal wear and maintain proper oxidative qualities.
Bottom line to me is, how much do you want to spend?
"It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum."
I work in ATF formulation for a company that produces additive packages for fuels, driveline lubes, industrial lubes and crankcase lubes. Shell V-Power, Dex VI, current Ford Mercon fluids and numerous off the shelf lubes contain our products (Quaker, Shell, Penzoil etc.).
Now I am no expert in crankcase fromulation, but I will share some of my knowledge/experience. First of all Amsoil and Mobil 1 perform extremely well in engine testing. For instance the ASTM Sequence IIIG test is a high temp, high speed, high load test. The engine is a pushrod V6 with flat followers, built with high bearing clearance, it is intended to put extreme loads on the oil. For 100 hrs, Rpm is 3600, load is 250 NM and block oil temp is 150C (sump >160C). It simulates an 100K mile engine running wide open in the desert, pulling a trailer. We have tested Amsoil extensively as well as Mobil 1. They both exceed expectations tremedously. Both will run past the 100 hr mark and exhibit minimal viscosity increase, as well as minimal wear and maintain proper oxidative qualities.
Bottom line to me is, how much do you want to spend?
Wait there is more.....
Now since performance is key, it must be established what performace is based off of. Is performance determined by total part wear, friction reduction, horsepower gained, service intervals, driveability, etc.....??? It may be a personal decision. Those who run a gear lube that limits porwer lost to friction (i.e. sponsored drag racers) don't mind rebuilding an axle if it means winning a race and earning money/ points/ contingency etc. Remember data on websites can be manipulated or exhibited without other considerations of hardware needs.
But for us regular joes we want all around performance.
Back to a little Lube chemistry. Although base stocks have a noticable effect on performance, they are not end all be alls, but rather a "base" to start with. It seems a lot of decision on base stock usage is based on finances as much as performance. It comes down to what is commercially attractive/ lucrative. Don't forget this is a business.
I'll wind it down, an additive package can be just as important as the base stock. And suffer the same commercial/ perfomance/ financial constraints as the base stock. Take a Grp. III basestock and blend it with a killer ad pack and you may can have a great fluid that meets all needs. The quality and formulation of antiwears, antioxidants, antifoamans, dispesants, detergents, viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers can have a greater effect of base stock type. Also, each peice of hardware has different needs, and I am not convinced that an engine like the 4G63 warrants the crazy protection packages that are on the market. A hypoid gear or automatic transmission can be a different story.
Bottom, bottom line is there is a reason Mobil and others are highly regarded by the OEMS. They have gone through extensive validation and qualitative testing. And their producers have the market strength to properly R&D a strong, sufficient product.
But for us regular joes we want all around performance.
Back to a little Lube chemistry. Although base stocks have a noticable effect on performance, they are not end all be alls, but rather a "base" to start with. It seems a lot of decision on base stock usage is based on finances as much as performance. It comes down to what is commercially attractive/ lucrative. Don't forget this is a business.
I'll wind it down, an additive package can be just as important as the base stock. And suffer the same commercial/ perfomance/ financial constraints as the base stock. Take a Grp. III basestock and blend it with a killer ad pack and you may can have a great fluid that meets all needs. The quality and formulation of antiwears, antioxidants, antifoamans, dispesants, detergents, viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers can have a greater effect of base stock type. Also, each peice of hardware has different needs, and I am not convinced that an engine like the 4G63 warrants the crazy protection packages that are on the market. A hypoid gear or automatic transmission can be a different story.
Bottom, bottom line is there is a reason Mobil and others are highly regarded by the OEMS. They have gone through extensive validation and qualitative testing. And their producers have the market strength to properly R&D a strong, sufficient product.
WOW.....
Some Truth Here, Some BS Here...
Before I go any further here, I want it known that I AM an AMSOIL Direct Jobber and have been selling AMSOIL Since 1984... NOBODY Beats My Prices... And few will ever be as straight up with you as I am..
www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx
AMSOIL is a company that names Names when it does testing. If these results were falsified, anyone of these companies would sue AMSOIL out of business.
Mobil 1 Was First ??? AMSOIL has been on the Market Since 1970, 1972 In it's current form of Marketing... Mobil 1 came along in 1974 with an oil that was "A 5W-20 Oil with the Characteristics of a 10W-40"... That is what was on the top of the can... Mobil almost ruined the market by pushing a product on the market that wasn't "all that". That could be where some of the BS started about Synthetics being Too Thin.... HOGWASH !!!! They have to fall into an area on a scale, there can be variances, but that would be with Synthetic or Petroleum. Basically, 5W-30 is 5W-30 whether Petroleum or Synthetic, PERIOD !!
AMSOIL is a Group IV PAO Synthetic.... It hasn't been a DiEster since around the mid 80's...
Mobile 1 Extended Drain 15,000 is a PAO Based oil yet, as far as I know, The other Mobil 1 Products, as far as I know, are now a Hydro-Cracked Products.
The Higher the number (Group III, IV, V) the better they are ???? Group V is Ester based products and although a good product have been replaced with PAO's with Esters for better performance..
It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum.
Eneos Oil..... Breaks Down too Fast and you get rattle... That is what happens when you have such a broad viscosity range in most cases.
10W-40 AMSOIL is NOT the recommended oil in your Turbo Charged Car or, for that matter, any of these cars. TSO 0W-30 is the recommended oil followed by ASL or ATM, 5W-30 and 10W-30 Respectively.
For those of you that already buy AMSOIL, send me a Mock order via Email with at least your Zip Code.... See where my Prices are !!!
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some Truth Here, Some BS Here...
Before I go any further here, I want it known that I AM an AMSOIL Direct Jobber and have been selling AMSOIL Since 1984... NOBODY Beats My Prices... And few will ever be as straight up with you as I am..
www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx
AMSOIL is a company that names Names when it does testing. If these results were falsified, anyone of these companies would sue AMSOIL out of business.
Mobil 1 Was First ??? AMSOIL has been on the Market Since 1970, 1972 In it's current form of Marketing... Mobil 1 came along in 1974 with an oil that was "A 5W-20 Oil with the Characteristics of a 10W-40"... That is what was on the top of the can... Mobil almost ruined the market by pushing a product on the market that wasn't "all that". That could be where some of the BS started about Synthetics being Too Thin.... HOGWASH !!!! They have to fall into an area on a scale, there can be variances, but that would be with Synthetic or Petroleum. Basically, 5W-30 is 5W-30 whether Petroleum or Synthetic, PERIOD !!
AMSOIL is a Group IV PAO Synthetic.... It hasn't been a DiEster since around the mid 80's...
Mobile 1 Extended Drain 15,000 is a PAO Based oil yet, as far as I know, The other Mobil 1 Products, as far as I know, are now a Hydro-Cracked Products.
The Higher the number (Group III, IV, V) the better they are ???? Group V is Ester based products and although a good product have been replaced with PAO's with Esters for better performance..
It doesn't make a difference what the oil is made out of, Performance is what counts... Right Now, PAO's w/Esters are the Hot Ticket. Tomorrow it may be a Group VI Exotic Synthetic or it could be a Petroleum.
Eneos Oil..... Breaks Down too Fast and you get rattle... That is what happens when you have such a broad viscosity range in most cases.
10W-40 AMSOIL is NOT the recommended oil in your Turbo Charged Car or, for that matter, any of these cars. TSO 0W-30 is the recommended oil followed by ASL or ATM, 5W-30 and 10W-30 Respectively.
For those of you that already buy AMSOIL, send me a Mock order via Email with at least your Zip Code.... See where my Prices are !!!
Doc
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AMsoil bought base stock from Mobil during the Fifities. Mobil was the first to develop Syntheic based products. Amsoil did introduce there line of Syn oil in 1972. Shortly after then Mobil. But fact is Amsoil truly came after mobil.
Last edited by Ph3n1x; Jul 18, 2007 at 09:23 PM.