True06

i dont care that they put in an automatic.. i actually wanted the automatic... but why the hell do they have to slow it down and change the body style? thats so ****in stupid! they should have just changed the tranny not the whole car! thats forkin rediculous!!!

D6syxx

Is stick hard to learn because I'm definitely getting a GSR version of the VII .....

pjal84

Manuals are easy to learn if you have any degree of coordination. Believe me, it's a lot more interesting to drive one than an automatic. There really is no feeling comparable to being able to rip through the gears as you're either accelerating, braking, or turning. Good stuff.

focal_m3

yea, plus i feel a lot safer driving a manual b/c you have so much more control over the car.

True06

i drive a mnanual all summer, but it is a jeep, so i dont try to go fast or whatever, is it hard to learn how to drive fast and shift at the right times and launch the right way and stuff with a manual? would a manual car be easier on hills than say a jeep?

dipper

Start moving a car up a hill is different from car to car.
I notice that Honda will roll back easier than say a Toyota when
start moving off an incline.

Maybe someone with a Mits manual experience can comment.

pjal84

focal, yeah, I like feeling more in control of the car to. It's pretty unconscious after about 2-3 weeks of driving a manual to where you don't even look at the speedometer or the tach and you just feel it. That's the best way I can describe it.

As for dipper, I drive up a parking garage every day to go to school and rolling is not a problem at all as far as I can tell and we have crazy inclines (at least in the transition sections between floors). Sure there's some mild roll back buy it just requires careful feathering of the clutch.

blitzpb

For steep inclines its all about learning the heel toe shifting in the first place. Holding the brake with your left foot, rolling it over to give yourself enough gas, then letting the clutch out. Sure its not the best thing in the world for your clutch, but when you are on a steep hil its about all you can do.

Its a bit scary the first time. In fact, when I was first encountering steep hills on a manual car I would use the e brake to hold the car while I got into gear.

The steepest hill Ive been stuck on is this monster hill on the way to Dodger stadium, or whatever its called. I was in my scooby and I had a stiff racing clutch and there was stopped traffic. I thought for sure I was gonna smack someone!

Nick

pjal84

Chavez Ravine...great place to watch a ball game. Good stuff! Hills I agree are a bit tricky at first. You might roll to much and it's damn scary with traffic around you. Just don't lose your cool is probably the best idea. blitzpb has it right doing heel toe and just being all around careful.

GlobeCLK

not everyone can deal with the stop-and-go traffic in some areas.... I drive in traffic everyday, and automatic will be alot easier for me. I want the performance without having to sacrifice for daily usage.

Besides, automatic turbos are alittle faster than manual version of the same car if you take it to a long stretch (WRX 0-60mph stick 5.7sec automatic 6.2 sec. 1/4 mile the same. To 120~130mph, auto takes 1/2 car lead)

Tested, same 500rwhp Supra TT, 6-speed is slower than automatic from 60~100mph. No manual gear shift = no foot off gas = no drop in boost = good for turbo

If you're a track person then you'll need the stick. But if we get the INVECS-II sports-auto, then that'll make up for alittle of the manual loss (still no clutch but better than just full auto.)

dipper

Rallying is not exactly if you get to 150-200 mph fastest. It is to get from point A to point B through twisty first.

If an automatic is a must, I say to hope some sort of SMG to come your way. It will be a little bit slower on launch, but it will shift a lot quicker than manual after launch. Like the real rally cars for racing.

But anything but a sludge box. It defeats the reason for getting an Evo... unless it is for show only.

GlobeCLK

I don't know what other areas are like but here in So.Cal most races takes place on the freeway, and that's where the automatic tranny won't lose to the manual. And how many Evo owners will actually take their cars offroad? The most they'll do is track racing, and we're still talking about not even 1/2 the Evo buyers.

No use getting manual if you will not be on the track, and all the racing you'll be doing is going to be on the freeway or dragstrip. That's where my stage is, and when the boost doesn't drop it's a very helpful kick

1stinline

highway racing goes in Austin and probably everywhere, but in Dallas where I used to go street racing it was from a dead stop on a heavily travelled four lane road. In Dallas 150-200 people show up park on the shoulder & stop traffic, then they would line the cars up. Anywhere from 2-10 cars are staged while someone stands in the street and acts like a tree. When the last of the staged cars has left, traffic resumes.

It's a total blast. I miss it, can't waite till I get my EVO so I can get back in to it. About 80-90% of the cars are Mustang or Z-28/Trans-am. However, there are usually some cool stuff like Vipers, Vettes, 300Z's, Rx-7's, And Supra's. Not to mention some motorcycles and trailered cars.

EJ

pjork-master

First of all, there is no way an auto can beat a stick if we are dealing with the same car with different trannies. Unless we are dealing with Ferrari's F1 box or BMW's SMGII box. Regardless, manuals may be a pain in traffic, but if you prefer driving the car rather than being driven there really is no comparison. The amount control you have over the engine and subsequent ability to steer the car with the gas, or prevent wheel slippage are better than any dumb ECU shifting. Lets not even talk about shifting within the peak of the power band or downshifting without a pause... sticks dominate here, too. But I digress, because ultimately it's a matter of preference... Oh yeah, hills are easy if you know how to balance on the friction point of the clutch. And contrary to popular belief, your modern clutch doesn't mind .

Now back to specking the Evo. Mitsu is in somewhat of a bind here. On one side, it needs an exciting performance car to pump up its bragging rights and give all those German brands the finger (BMW M anything, Porsche, and crappy AMG - can those guys increase horespower witouth a supercharger?) for giving insane performance at a fraction of the cost. And superior auto-personality to boot. Which would make Mitsu more than a Japanese Econo Co. for the common man. But, on the other hand, there is the pressure of the ol'mighty greenback, a.k.a. don't break the bank by catering to a small percentage when you can smoke Havanas with benjamens as kindling by selling to millions.

So what's Mitsu to do ?

Both, but here's how. It needs to first bring the Evo that die-hard enthusiasts like me want. Loaded with the works: AYC, all the diffs in place, big wheel, big brakes, as much hp and torque as they can get out of that 2.0L wonder, some creature comfort (electric locks, windows, etc), recaros, and looking as extroverted as possible. And the 6sp manual. By doing this, Mitsu appeals to the cash in hand enthusiasts who've been watering at the mouth for this car ever since its conception, i.e. a guaranteed sale with decent numbers. By doing this, we're happy, the car mags gush all over themselves praising the car, and you make a bigger market.

How?

Well, not everyone can afford the car, i.e kiddos in high school, college, people paying loans. But they want it. So you come out with one that looks similiar, but is detuned and cheaper... smaller turbo, no recaros, no AYC, normal diff, small brakes, wheels, etc. But still impressive performance and presence. And most importantly, massive tuning potential. Which means more money for Mitsu .

Then, all those ****** that thought flashy brand and cash gets you the crown on the street will want one. BUt here's the catch. They like cars that shift for themselves. So in come the auto boxes, more sales. They like luxo- leather and all that other garbage that doesn't do anything for performance. The cars way more, still perform awesome, relatively to everything else.

Then there are people who want the performance, the luxo, but more sedate looks, i.e. no wing. More dinero.

And by satisfying everyone, all Mitsu has to do is sell the iterations of the car it already does in Japan in the States, at no extra cost to it. But the key will be phasing the models in.

Plus, by bringing the all out Evo first and setting up a no holds barred performance rep, Mitsu does something else for itself. It attracts more people to its showrooms, which will be more sales across the bord. And it will be able to sell cars at all levels... with a little drive-line tweaking across the board... because Mitsus will be synonymous for kick *** performance engineering, quality, and reasonable cost. Allowing it to eventually branch out even more .

So gents, that's my vision for Mitsu, and hopefully that's Mitsu's vision. It worked for Subaru in Europe with the previous gen WRX STI, the car write-ups saying to give your first born for the car, and people buying things Subbie, and making a market for other performance models e.g. the Legacy B4.

If Mitsu gives us a U.S. detuned Evo... please don't, and don't leave out the recaros even though the West is fat... I think it will lose out in the long run. And people who sell left-handed Evos from Europe will eat the scraps. And unfortunately, I think people like me will either buy a grey import or something else .

1stinline

Excellent!

I really like your vision pjork-master for . I hope it turns out that way too.

So pjork-master, are you in marketing ??

Regards,