SCC's EVO dyno'd
91 octane, thats all you had to say....As far as Im concerned you have been downgrading the Evo with you "dyno" tets since you have begun posting. Good for you, you think the Evo is underpowered, blah blah blah. Just go and check out the other dyno pulls for the car listed on this site. The car is damn quick, period, talk the the people that own them. Remember, theres no standardized dyno formats for awd vehicles. I belive the car is putting out its advertised horsepower. I mean I hate to be a jerk, but enough is enough.
Originally posted by Tristar Racing
91 octane, thats all you had to say
91 octane, thats all you had to say
Originally posted by Tristar Racing
91 octane, thats all you had to say....As far as Im concerned you have been downgrading the Evo with you "dyno" tets since you have begun posting. Good for you, you think the Evo is underpowered, blah blah blah. Just go and check out the other dyno pulls for the car listed on this site. The car is damn quick, period, talk the the people that own them. Remember, theres no standardized dyno formats for awd vehicles. I belive the car is putting out its advertised horsepower. I mean I hate to be a jerk, but enough is enough.
91 octane, thats all you had to say....As far as Im concerned you have been downgrading the Evo with you "dyno" tets since you have begun posting. Good for you, you think the Evo is underpowered, blah blah blah. Just go and check out the other dyno pulls for the car listed on this site. The car is damn quick, period, talk the the people that own them. Remember, theres no standardized dyno formats for awd vehicles. I belive the car is putting out its advertised horsepower. I mean I hate to be a jerk, but enough is enough.
Keep in mind the Vivid dyno result, while higher, was skewed because the dyno operator (Dyno Comp) uses an incorrectly calibrated Dyno Dynamics dyno, unlike the one used at Vishnu.If you notice, on Mitsubishi's Evo site, they recommend 98RON fuel for the Evo:
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/evo/popup_tech_specs.html
That's far better than the available 91 octane found on the West Coast. Shiv gained around 8whp alone just with better fuel. That shouldn't happen with a car that is tuned for 91 octane.
Mark
Mark
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Germany
Shiv,
I thought the SCC mag was already in print but you said SCC just dyno'd it yesterday. So, are they going to say something about it in the article? They really need to, otherwise a lot of folks will be upset when they discover their car isn't what Mitsu gave to the magazines. Wonder when R&T's car was made and if it was from the early batch?
Are you going to get to dyno the STi?
Also, I'm sure he was refering the the higher reving EJ20 in the rest-of-world STi's since the USDM has a 7000 rpm redline (not sure where fuel cut is though quite yet).
TRS
I thought the SCC mag was already in print but you said SCC just dyno'd it yesterday. So, are they going to say something about it in the article? They really need to, otherwise a lot of folks will be upset when they discover their car isn't what Mitsu gave to the magazines. Wonder when R&T's car was made and if it was from the early batch?
Are you going to get to dyno the STi?
Also, I'm sure he was refering the the higher reving EJ20 in the rest-of-world STi's since the USDM has a 7000 rpm redline (not sure where fuel cut is though quite yet).
TRS
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Joined: Sep 2002
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tristar
you seem to miss the point. i got to take a ride with shiv in his evo friday, and all he could talk about was how superior the car was to the wrx, as well as others. he raved about the car. i really don't see where all the nay sayers come up with "shiv has nothing but bad to say about the EVO and its HP #'s". it makes me laugh out loud.
the bottom line is the car on this particular dyno "seems" lower than expected. it makes a great base line for testing parts and ECU upgrades. shic is a real world tester who is **** as hell. i am willing to bet his products will out perform what other tuners will make for this car. and they will be tuned properly, with performance and RELIABILITY.
i will post up in another thread my impressions after my ride with shiv friday. it was impressive to say the least...
josh
you seem to miss the point. i got to take a ride with shiv in his evo friday, and all he could talk about was how superior the car was to the wrx, as well as others. he raved about the car. i really don't see where all the nay sayers come up with "shiv has nothing but bad to say about the EVO and its HP #'s". it makes me laugh out loud.
the bottom line is the car on this particular dyno "seems" lower than expected. it makes a great base line for testing parts and ECU upgrades. shic is a real world tester who is **** as hell. i am willing to bet his products will out perform what other tuners will make for this car. and they will be tuned properly, with performance and RELIABILITY.
i will post up in another thread my impressions after my ride with shiv friday. it was impressive to say the least...
josh
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I dont know shiv or the company and I'm not here to bash anybody, but the Evo puts out 230 bhp to the wheels (or more) on any dyno except his'. So either his is correct and everybody elses' is wrong, or it's the other way around. Or another possibility would be that they are all wrong and that the actual engine output is somewhere in the middle (because all these tuners apply the wrong correction factors to the dyno).
I will give everybody the benefit of doubt until the test car's engine has been taken apart (if that ever happens) but I have to say I suspect that someone here is trying to get us to believe that the Evo is much slower than what it should be in order to get business. I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no way of knowing; all I'm saying is that I, as someone who doesnt trust tuners (and believes they change correction factors on their dynos after they mod your car) SUSPECTS that this MAY be so.
On a side note, I dont know about the USA, but in Europe, if a car's engine output is not within 5% of that stated by the manufacturer, you have a right to get it fixed or give it back.
In addition to that, every Evo since the Evo 5 has always put out between 290 and 310 bhp at the flywheel, equating to 230 bhp at the wheels approximately; I really cannot see why the Evo 8 would be any different. 91 octane instead of 93 doesnt make you lose 50 whp!
I will give everybody the benefit of doubt until the test car's engine has been taken apart (if that ever happens) but I have to say I suspect that someone here is trying to get us to believe that the Evo is much slower than what it should be in order to get business. I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no way of knowing; all I'm saying is that I, as someone who doesnt trust tuners (and believes they change correction factors on their dynos after they mod your car) SUSPECTS that this MAY be so.
On a side note, I dont know about the USA, but in Europe, if a car's engine output is not within 5% of that stated by the manufacturer, you have a right to get it fixed or give it back.
In addition to that, every Evo since the Evo 5 has always put out between 290 and 310 bhp at the flywheel, equating to 230 bhp at the wheels approximately; I really cannot see why the Evo 8 would be any different. 91 octane instead of 93 doesnt make you lose 50 whp!
Like people have been saying, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH WHP THE CAR HAS BEEN SCORING ON DIFFERENT DYNOS.
IT'S ALL RELATIVE.
As long as conditions are as constant as they CAN BE on a per dyno basis, and cars are tested and COMPARED on the same dyno, any hp and tuning differences should be relative. Meaning you don't compare a WRX hp on a dynojet to the Evo hp on the dyno dynamics one. That also means you test cars on the same octane, though I suspect a WRX may not take as big a performance hit on 91 octane than an Evo would. But regardless, the dyno is a tool for tuning and while it can give an accurate indication of real world performance, it cannot and never will be a substitute for real world performance.
I think the problem here isn't really so much that we lost power over the JDM Evo. We all know the JDM Evo is underrated, so while it may SEEM like the US is only getting 5hp less than JDM (271 advertised vs 276 quoted for JDM), we're actually close to 20-40hp less (271hp vs actual 290-310hp MAX on JDM).
So we know our USDM Evo is less powerful stock, but the question really is... why the USDM pre-production vehicles appear to have more hp than the USDM production vehicles. JDM Evo is out of the question in this case, honestly, because our Evo is bound to lose power through cats or whatever emissions reducing parts they've put in the car. The reason for less hp? We dunno, so that's why I'm encouraging Shiv to keep at it. Yes, I'm sure those who are experienced enough to tune their own cars, and those who plan to mod the hell out of the Evo anyway probably don't give a crap for the 20 or so "missing" hp cause it can be easily regained, but I for one am interested.
If you're not, please don't feel the need to steal the thread and start bashing like the last one. It's completely unnecessary.
Remember, it's all relative!
IT'S ALL RELATIVE.
As long as conditions are as constant as they CAN BE on a per dyno basis, and cars are tested and COMPARED on the same dyno, any hp and tuning differences should be relative. Meaning you don't compare a WRX hp on a dynojet to the Evo hp on the dyno dynamics one. That also means you test cars on the same octane, though I suspect a WRX may not take as big a performance hit on 91 octane than an Evo would. But regardless, the dyno is a tool for tuning and while it can give an accurate indication of real world performance, it cannot and never will be a substitute for real world performance.
I think the problem here isn't really so much that we lost power over the JDM Evo. We all know the JDM Evo is underrated, so while it may SEEM like the US is only getting 5hp less than JDM (271 advertised vs 276 quoted for JDM), we're actually close to 20-40hp less (271hp vs actual 290-310hp MAX on JDM).
So we know our USDM Evo is less powerful stock, but the question really is... why the USDM pre-production vehicles appear to have more hp than the USDM production vehicles. JDM Evo is out of the question in this case, honestly, because our Evo is bound to lose power through cats or whatever emissions reducing parts they've put in the car. The reason for less hp? We dunno, so that's why I'm encouraging Shiv to keep at it. Yes, I'm sure those who are experienced enough to tune their own cars, and those who plan to mod the hell out of the Evo anyway probably don't give a crap for the 20 or so "missing" hp cause it can be easily regained, but I for one am interested.
If you're not, please don't feel the need to steal the thread and start bashing like the last one. It's completely unnecessary.Remember, it's all relative!
Last edited by zstryder; Mar 16, 2003 at 07:59 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
Likes: 1
Hi All,
I had planned to roadrace the Evo in SCCA's Touring 2 class (eligible in 2004), but now I'm not so sure. If the car has been de-tuned via engine internals this cannot be corrected under Touring class rules. We can change the air intake element, modify the ECU within the existing box and run a cat-back exhaust. Balancing and blueprinting are also permitted, but something like changing camshafts would be a definite no-no. Shiv, please get to the bottom of this one. I'm sure I'm not the only one with racing this car in mind.
Cheers,
I had planned to roadrace the Evo in SCCA's Touring 2 class (eligible in 2004), but now I'm not so sure. If the car has been de-tuned via engine internals this cannot be corrected under Touring class rules. We can change the air intake element, modify the ECU within the existing box and run a cat-back exhaust. Balancing and blueprinting are also permitted, but something like changing camshafts would be a definite no-no. Shiv, please get to the bottom of this one. I'm sure I'm not the only one with racing this car in mind.
Cheers,
Originally posted by KK
No offense, but Shiv isn't saying he believes the Evo is underpowered, his testing/tuning sessions and dyno numbers are telling him it's underpowered Keep in mind the Vivid dyno result, while higher, was skewed because the dyno operator (Dyno Comp) uses an incorrectly calibrated Dyno Dynamics dyno, unlike the one used at Vishnu.
If you notice, on Mitsubishi's Evo site, they recommend 98RON fuel for the Evo:
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/evo/popup_tech_specs.html
That's far better than the available 91 octane found on the West Coast. Shiv gained around 8whp alone just with better fuel. That shouldn't happen with a car that is tuned for 91 octane.
Mark
Mark
No offense, but Shiv isn't saying he believes the Evo is underpowered, his testing/tuning sessions and dyno numbers are telling him it's underpowered
Keep in mind the Vivid dyno result, while higher, was skewed because the dyno operator (Dyno Comp) uses an incorrectly calibrated Dyno Dynamics dyno, unlike the one used at Vishnu.If you notice, on Mitsubishi's Evo site, they recommend 98RON fuel for the Evo:
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/evo/popup_tech_specs.html
That's far better than the available 91 octane found on the West Coast. Shiv gained around 8whp alone just with better fuel. That shouldn't happen with a car that is tuned for 91 octane.
Mark
Mark
Erik
thats one thing I give to Subaru, and take away. The subbie couldnt be equal to worldwide STI's so they upped it to 2.5 so that we would have a comparably good Sti to the rest of the world. Its nice the EVO stayed with the 2.0 format, but I hate when we get watered-down products.... and your right its MUCH more than a 10hp differance from jdm to usdm evo's. I wish you all could drive around on 94 octane like we can here on the EAST Coast.... hmmm... and we still havent gotten our EVO's.... we shall see
-Shahul
-Shahul
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: Torrance, California
Originally posted by Claudius
I dont know shiv or the company and I'm not here to bash anybody, but the Evo puts out 230 bhp to the wheels (or more) on any dyno except his'. So either his is correct and everybody elses' is wrong, or it's the other way around. Or another possibility would be that they are all wrong and that the actual engine output is somewhere in the middle (because all these tuners apply the wrong correction factors to the dyno).
I will give everybody the benefit of doubt until the test car's engine has been taken apart (if that ever happens) but I have to say I suspect that someone here is trying to get us to believe that the Evo is much slower than what it should be in order to get business. I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no way of knowing; all I'm saying is that I, as someone who doesnt trust tuners (and believes they change correction factors on their dynos after they mod your car) SUSPECTS that this MAY be so.
On a side note, I dont know about the USA, but in Europe, if a car's engine output is not within 5% of that stated by the manufacturer, you have a right to get it fixed or give it back.
In addition to that, every Evo since the Evo 5 has always put out between 290 and 310 bhp at the flywheel, equating to 230 bhp at the wheels approximately; I really cannot see why the Evo 8 would be any different. 91 octane instead of 93 doesnt make you lose 50 whp!
I dont know shiv or the company and I'm not here to bash anybody, but the Evo puts out 230 bhp to the wheels (or more) on any dyno except his'. So either his is correct and everybody elses' is wrong, or it's the other way around. Or another possibility would be that they are all wrong and that the actual engine output is somewhere in the middle (because all these tuners apply the wrong correction factors to the dyno).
I will give everybody the benefit of doubt until the test car's engine has been taken apart (if that ever happens) but I have to say I suspect that someone here is trying to get us to believe that the Evo is much slower than what it should be in order to get business. I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no way of knowing; all I'm saying is that I, as someone who doesnt trust tuners (and believes they change correction factors on their dynos after they mod your car) SUSPECTS that this MAY be so.
On a side note, I dont know about the USA, but in Europe, if a car's engine output is not within 5% of that stated by the manufacturer, you have a right to get it fixed or give it back.
In addition to that, every Evo since the Evo 5 has always put out between 290 and 310 bhp at the flywheel, equating to 230 bhp at the wheels approximately; I really cannot see why the Evo 8 would be any different. 91 octane instead of 93 doesnt make you lose 50 whp!
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Who cares ? So what if they are de-tuning the production cars and tapering the boost at the high rpms?
I just drove a production EVO today and I can verify from my butt dyno it was slow as heck - - Shiv is prob right when he is claiming like 20 HP more than the WRX on top - - it just didn't feel that fast
BUT - I think
is doing this prob to avoid blowing up a whole buntch of cars
All you have to do is add a super afc and a boost conroller and you cal get that extra 20 hp very easily
Who cares ? So what if they are de-tuning the production cars and tapering the boost at the high rpms?
I just drove a production EVO today and I can verify from my butt dyno it was slow as heck - - Shiv is prob right when he is claiming like 20 HP more than the WRX on top - - it just didn't feel that fast
BUT - I think
is doing this prob to avoid blowing up a whole buntch of cars All you have to do is add a super afc and a boost conroller and you cal get that extra 20 hp very easily
