Evilution

While a 1/4 mi run does not give you "accurate" hp numbers it definitely can give you a good ballpark. A car running 103mph through the traps is definitely pushing more than 180whp at 3200+lbs. But other than that, a big reason many of us want to see 1/4mi numbers is because IF the car does run a 13.8 or better then I think most of us could care less what the dyno numbers are. It would mean the car is still fast as hell. Now someone else posted it only ran 14.4 @95mph from what they saw which is WAY below specs. If that's the case then Mitsu would have a lawsuit on their hands similar to Ford with their Mustangs. Like you said before what it puts down isn't important but what gains are made are. That's the importance of a dyno to measure gain. BUT that can be measured through 1/4 mi as well.

Now my question to you is through all of the current publications out there I've read many stating "Insider information says the car is severely being restricted through engine management [ECU]." They also go on to say that passing emissions was easy for the car but keeping the power was the hard part. I think this would lend itself to many variable Evos out there. How much testing with the ECU have you done and what kind of output are you getting through ECU tweaks alone? Mitsu is claiming that this car should be just as fast or extremely close to the JDM spec Evo through engine management alone. There's got to be something there.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Regarding dragstrip performance: No, I don't agree with you. The biggest hurdle that some people have to overcome is their notion of what 180 wheel hp on OUR DYNO is like.

It is a substantial amount of power.

This is well over 200 wheel hp on a Dynojet. Also, please keep in mind that all these tests have been conducted on 91 octane which is very different from the 93-94 octane that many people are lucky enough to run.

The extra 2-3 octane points makes a hell of a difference on an octane-limited engine that can gain 6-7 wheel hp for every degree of additional timing it can run. So please-- remember to compare applies with apples.

I have no doubt that these cars will do just fine at the drag strip. But I also have no doubt that those conditions will be very different from a controlled dyno environment. If it runs 12s, that is great.

The question at hand here isn't how quick it will or should be in the 1/4 mile. It is WHY the press cars are making substantially more power than the production cars we've dynod under nearly identical conditions (temp, humidity, octane, etc,.)

This is the million dollar question. Not whether Mitsubishi is or isn't over-rating the EVO's hp claims. For that, an engine dyno and a LOT more info on how Mitsubishi tests their cars is needed.

Shiv

mevistox5

Shiv,

When are you getting a chance to dyno the showroom US-spec STI?? I wouldn't be surprised if you sh ould see the same thing happen.

KavMan

Didn't shiv say in one of the post that 180whp is actually around 260 on 91 gas so if he used 93 gas it would be 190 so there you have it 270, what mitsu advertises

So what if the test car had 20 more hp?
Mitsu advertised 271 and if the above is true then it is spot on
You got what you paid for

broeli

iTrader: (19)

Shiv, Can you tell us the break-in procedures on each of the cars? It has been asked several times but not answered. I'll almost gaurantee the break-in procedures on the press cars was more extreme. I have a feeling the press cars (SCC's Evo) are more fully broken-in, not to mention broken-in hard which may make a difference.

Nzo

iTrader: (1)

A 20whp difference eh?

M3lachsilber

These posts are BOTHERING me..
I can't read them anymore..

I hope there is ZERO discrepency between claimed HP and actual..
Otherwise, there will be some serious ****..

broeli

iTrader: (19)

It is really hard to say for a fact how much is gained or lost by certain break-in procedures. But, I commonly see about 5% higher #'s on cars that follow a "hard" break-in. That AND a difference in gas in the SCC Evo from the start MAY be enough to see a significant gain. IF the SCC makes about 5% more from just simply being broken-in better and adding the extra 8-9hp that the 93octane gas gave all the test cars, I think 18-20hp would be possible.
What do you think Shiv? What is your experience with the different break-in procedures? And what difference have you found in a car that has 500 miles versus a car with 5000-10000?

SpeedKillz

iTrader: (1)

If there was a drastic difference in the breaking in between Shiv's EVOs and SCC's EVO's, this could be the start of a whole big mess. I think that this is really important as people are currently breaking in their new cars now. Personally I would be pissed if I broke my new car in all soft and then found out that it was suppose to be broken in hard for better results. It would be nice if we could get contact with SCC and ask them exactly what they did, and then compair that to what Shiv did. As for those of you who have already broken in your cars soft...I hope for your sake that this was the correct way...

PS: Is there any way to ask Mitsu's EVO Engineers how this car should be broken in? ie...Mothership, any help?

Coolguy949

iTrader: (10)

Does SCC own the car or is it on loan from Mitsu?

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Hey guys,

It's very unlikely that we are seeing any break-in induced differences here. The differences are just too great. Plus, there are already extreme examples of hard and easy break-ins in our sample pool (everyone else vs. our car with 370-odd dyno pulls). And they are all closely matched to each other. The SCC car, by comparison, is in another orbit. Impressive considering they are all running the same 91 octane junk.

Shiv

Sweft

Are you going to take apart the engines?

Fred

iTrader: (1)

I found this on here


http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=2;t=000792


This goes with Shiv has told us about the tester car!

"Hello,

First, there are dozens of dealers selling the STi at MSRP - check the i-club STI forum for a thread on dealers throughout the country selling it for MSRP.

Then, I just got back from a run with Coleman through the local canyons. I agree, the Mitsu doesn't feel worlds faster than a WRX in plain old acceleration. In fact, a WRX with some basic mods (I've driven many Vishnu Stage 0 and Stage 1 cars - it's probably comparable to a little more than a Stage 0, but way less than a stage 1) feels about the same, in a straight line. But that's where the comparison pretty much ends.

Holy cow. Seriously, holy freaking cow. The EVO is probably the absolute best handling production car I've ever had the pleasure to sit in. The suspension is well designed, properly damped, nicely setup. If there was one suspension mod I'd do, it's a 1mm bigger rear swaybar. On some of the most gruesome tight corners, the car tended toward understeer. Otherwise, no understeer. The brake pads could use an upgrade - we smoked those HUGE brembo fronts. Aside from those nitpicks, the car is perfect. I think if I got one, I'd leave everything else stock!

The particular canyon road we took has both banked and flat curves, elevation gains and drops in corners, huge lumps in the road surface and some killer potholes. Through it all, the car kept perfect composure. It's a little stiffly sprung for a stock car, but that's perfect for performance.

Now, remember, this is a ringer with 20 extra horsepower on a stocker, so basically, with a "real" stock car, you'd probably definitely want to get an exhaust system and some ECU reprogramming. But oh my god! I couldn't believe the stuff we were doing. And half the corners were still wet from last night's rains, and the car stuck to the road like you wouldn't believe. It got just the right slip angles and with a little playing, it oversteered on throttle to correct its direction, etc.

I would say compared to a stock WRX, the handling of the EVO is a whole different class. The WRX with STI suspension, or with most of your typical bolt-on suspensions would NOT be able to keep up with the EVO through that kind of a road. (I haven't driven a cobb suspension, so no comment on how it compares).

I eagerly await Subaru's response, with the STi, but for now, there's no comparison. The EVO is a much more brutally awesome car than the WRX. definitely worth the $4k premium you pay at MSRP."

evo_dan

Here's a question for shiv. Could breaking the Evo in on dino oil first and then switching to synthetic oil create a 20 hp difference? From what I understand breaking the engine in on dino oil will result in higher compression then if broken in with synthetic oil. Is Mitsubishi breaking in the press cars themselves first before lending them out?

gtr

iTrader: (6)

I'm not shiv but i serious doubt any difference in breaking would justify 20 wheel horsepower. Not just any wheel horsepower, it's horswpower for a dynamic dyno the lowest in the world. We are probably talking about 28.5 hp at the crank. I feel our evo with 94 octane would achieve close to 190hp on shiv's dyno which is in fact 271 no less no more after proper breakin vs 187whp on good gas.