nvr2fast

iTrader: (1)

I watched a video on one of the Mitsu Lancer/Evo websites, and it showed 2 videos of a rally driver driving the Evo IX. It showed 1 in-car video (including his feet/pedal work and windscreen) and one from outside.

A couple of things I noticed which seemed strange...

#1: While downshifting, all he did was press on the clutch and brake while shifting... he did NOT blip the throttle to rev match at all (which is what I always do). I see the Best Motoring guys doing the heel-toe to blip the throttle and rev match as I do, yet this rally driver was not doing it. Is the AWD Evo SUPPOSED to be shifted like this (no rev matching)?! If this was done on a RWD car he'd be swerving out of control!

#2: During some corners, instead of just pressing the brake pedal with his right foot, he would press the brake pedal with his LEFT foot and press the throttle with his right foot AT THE SAME TIME. I haven't driven a turbo car before, but the only thing I can guess he did this for is to keep the turbo spooled up? I can't imagine it helping with the brakes (since doing that would generate more heat) or perhaps he was trying some trickery with the AWD system I'm not aware of?


Maybe someone can shed some light on the above 2 rather strange things I noticed?d

UPDATE: here is the link to the video I am talking about:
http://www.lancerevoclub.com/EVOIX/V...ype_inside.swf

Stew

iTrader: (11)

#1) No rev matching will slow the car down faster, which works better (more stable) on an AWD car.

#2) Some throttle input while breaking will keep the turbo spooled, as you mentioned.

nvr2fast

iTrader: (1)

For #1, wouldn't that put quite a lot of strain on the clutch/drivetrain, as it would be shocking the clutch/drivetrain every time it had to absorb the RPM difference? Or maybe the Evo has something built in to specially absorb this shock?

And in some cases, I guess it might even cause all 4 wheels to lose traction? I'm only getting my Evo IX this week so I haven't experienced this, but I want to do the right thing from the start.

TRDHarrier

iTrader: (3)

#1, that's weird cuz u get a little bit of weight transfer shaking thing if u know what i mean for not rev matching.

#2, i do thta all the time. especially one time i was on summer tires when it was raining and sleeting. had to do it on a turn because I was understeering. it whips the back out. and brake while u turn can keep the rpms higher giving u more power out of a turn

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

good lord, where do these people get there (mis)information

ShiftySVT

1) Not blipping the throttle is bad for the clutch and it upsets the handling.

2) They do this to prevent understeer. If you come into a corner slightly too fast and it starts to understeer, taping the brake will transfer weight to the front, causing the back end to step out. Some say this technique isn't really neccessary. Though, I don't think it hurts anything if used sparingly and properly. The guys on Best Motoring seem to be pretty good at it.

nvr2fast

iTrader: (1)

Okay guys I found the link to the videos!

Its at:
http://www.lancerevoclub.com/EVOIX/V...Xprototype.swf
and
http://www.lancerevoclub.com/EVOIX/V...ype_inside.swf

What do you think?

Evolved Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Whether or not a driver uses heel-and-toe really depends on his driving style. If you look at WRC drivers, most of them will use it to keep the turbo spooled up and avoid disrupting the chassis.

Left foot braking is used to control understeer and has nothing to do with the turbo

m32001

iTrader: (7)

It would seem to me that downshifting without rev matching would decelerate the car the fastest. But I would imagine that it also puts more strain on the tranny and/or clutch, and also like someone else said, you can lose a bit of traction/handling for a couple seconds.

Stew

iTrader: (11)

Well, it may not be exact, but please insert where I have went wrong for the good of the other members, and maybe even for my enlightenment.

for #1, what I mentinoed before may not be the exact reason the driver was not blipping the throttle, but a sudden increase in RPM due to a downshift with upset the traction at the driving wheels (all 4 in an Evo) much like braking. In a hard corner if all 4 wheels are upset evenly, depending on the handling characteristics of a certain car, a push will be more likely. If only the rear wheels traction is upset (a RWD vehicle with a hard downshift), an oversteer condition is more likely.

for #2, again, I cannot be exactly sure why the driver was throttling through braking meaning if it was a handling issue or for power delivery, but holding a slgith amount of constant throttle through breaking will keep the engine pre-loaded, allowing boost to arrive quicker after the turn. However these may not be the reasons for the particular situation, but please inform me where I have went wrong if you have different knowledge chrono.

coco

#1 I would assume that would not be a good thing without seeing the clip, though it may be possible that since he is on dirt there wont be a need to rev match, it wont really upset the balance of the car if the wheels lock for a quick second.

#2 Rally drivers, at least the ones I have seen, always left foot brake. The engine never dies in dirt so to drive faster use your left foot. The split second needed to transfer your right foot from the brake to the accelerator can be avoided.

SoR

iTrader: (19)

WRC drivers have anti-lag so they don't need to keep the turbo spooling by jamming the gas pedal

Greg K

iTrader: (2)

this was on a stock IX, the driver (Pannizi) is one of the best on Tarmac. It's common with rally cars (and among rally drivers) to not rev match for exactly the point it does upset the car. In rally cars you want to upset the car to get the back to step out under braking. This aids in turn in and allows the driver to carry more speed through the slide. I know this isn't necessarily the best way to maintain speed for the longevity of the tires (cuz you're always sliding) but it allows them to carry higher cornering speeds for short periods of time.

in this past years WRC you saw the more advanced active diff cars dominate because they allow the drivers to run a more settled "roadrace" line through the corners rather than the more sideways "rally" line.

rally drivers don't necessarly LFB to keep the turbo spooled. They LFB to ballance the car. In a long progressive corner I LFB to transition the car from understeer to oversteer and back. It's like ballancing on a knife edge. Start running wide - feed a bit more throttle, start plowing - brake a bit and then more gas.

Stew

iTrader: (11)

Exactly, but the reason the car imediately responds to your throttle input is because you are on the gas pre-loading the engine while you are braking. Alternating between the break and gas instantaneously would be the exact same method you mentioned, except for the immediate reaction from the car when switching from braking to accelerating due to constant throttle input creating on-tap power delivery

96_LXR

iTrader: (3)

I haven't watched the video but all of the WRC cars I've seen are all running sequential gearboxes which don't require using the clutch or blipping the throttle. It is all done by the ECU. Both upshifts and downshifts are controlled by the ECU, the driver either hits the shift paddles on the steering wheel (up or down) or some of the cars still have a shift lever so it is either pull back to upshift and push forward to downshift (it's a ratchet style shifter).
Just my $.02