I don't believe that.

If that were true, an Eclipse GST would trap MUCH higher than a GSX. And that is not the case.

 

Cladius said it was 24% so I believe it

 

I think you're thinking about someone else. Our Dyno Dynamics dyno has been shown to be dead-nuts accurate. Dynojets read 16-18% higher. Dynapacks, as it seems, now read even more optimistically.

cheers
shiv

 

The EVO you read about in this month's SCC was an alarmingly strong pre-production EVO. Like most pre-prod press cars, it is measurably stronger than the production version. The pre-prod press car made 240 wheel hp. The production press car they got a few weeks ago (which you have yet to read about) made 230 wheel hp on the same dyno. It'll be discussed in an upcoming issue.

FWIW, that car made around 200 wheel hp on our Dyno Dynamics dyno the day after it dyno'd at 230 at HKS, which is still 10-20 wheel hp stronger than the other 7-8 EVOs we've dynod.

Last week, at Palmdale (during SCC mag testing), it ran trap speeds of 102mph on the usual 91 octane pee. Keep in mind that this is with a radar gun, not the usual timing mechanisms used at drag strips. The same day/place/test/driver, a customer's Stage 2 WRX, which dyno'd at 253 wheel hp and 297 wheel hp on our Dyno Dynamics Dyno and the HKS Dynojet (respectively) ran traps of 110-111mph.

So make your own conclusions....

Cheers,
shiv

 

Shiv,
10hp difference between the two eh? Well thats interesting info for sure since they were tested on the same dyno. Same fuel?

I just wonder how much difference the fuel/octane can make with this car. gtr was using 94, which is pretty decent octane. Did the orignal SCC car have a full tank of gas when delivered? If so who knows what mitsubishi might have put in it. What kind of fuel was used for their 230hp dyno run?

I know there is a diminishing rate of return on hp improvement as the octane increases with the stock ECU, but I am pretty sure it would make some kind of difference.

BTW- I am not sold on the "ringer" theory, and think its speculation at its best. SCC is not the only one getting higher hp readings,which makes me lean towards combined differences in Dynos, fuel quality, and the smaller tolerance differences that exist between every car. The idea that there are a handful of super EVO's out there, and not just in the magazine testers hands, seems unlikely.

As far as the trap speeds go it seems like a 297whp WRX trapping at 110-111 vs a 230whp car trapping at 102 with a delta of 67whp makes me think the EVO is doing pretty good for that kind of power differential.Am I missing something here?

I am not trying to be a jerk, but would just like to understand why we see such disparity in the numbers.

So anyway Shiv, thanks for the info you are providing, it is helpful to get varying perspectives on a matter of continuing controversy.

I know the right answer is not whats popular, but ultimately what can be scientifically proven through testing in a repeatable fashion.


PS Claudius, thanks for your feedback on the transmission loss info. I have followed some of your threads and do trust your knowledge base with these cars!

 

It simply seems to me that the midwest Evo's are running stronger. Which points directly to the fuel available.

 

that would mean that the Southeast would be good too with our 93 octane stuff

 

Both press cars have been tested on regular 91 octane gas. The same very stations we use during day to day driving, in fact.

Higher octane does certainly help with the EVO 8. We've seen close to 10 wheel hp by running 93-94 octane over our regular 91 octane. The power differential grows even larger when one starts tuning for more power.

The "ringer" theory isn't a theory. It's as close as fact as one can get. Just about every car manufacturer does this. Toyota did it with the Supra. Mazda with the FD RX-7. Nissan with the 300ZXtt and presumably Subaru with the STi I drove last week. In fact, it's rare when it's not done as is the case with the Neon turbo which has been reported to make the same power in production form as it did as a preproduction. It's a pretty widely accepted thing in the magazine world. It's just rarely discussed outside of those circles.

EVOs do quite well with the power they make. Not only does it have a lot of area under the torque curve, boost response between shifts is as close to immediate as you can get with a turbo car. This has a lot to do with its ability to run quicker than the peak numbers would suggest.

Cheers,
shiv

 

Interesting. So did the STi then exceed your expectations then?

 

Again, that is assuming that Dyno Dynamics produces power numbers that are equal to the engine dyno numbers. It also assumes that the entire engine setup, including exhaust piping, intercooler piping, air filter, etc is set up correctly on the engine dyno.

 

4th but i don't think it matters on a chassis dyno without the rollers

 

Shiv,

How many miles are you running with your evo's? Did your evo go up in power as milage increased to over 1k on the OD? I'm still puzzles on why that dynopacks ran so optimistic on the evos and so low for modded subaru's? I think they'll run a stock wrx next week but i don't think it's comparable either way.

What should be accurate is trap speed tested on the 1/4 mile. If our evos run the same trap speed as a modded wrx we have more hp due to the 200lb difference. Too bad the track was rained out today so maybe tommarrow i'll give everyone more infomation?

 

Shiv,
Thanks for filling in some of the gaps regarding the octane questions. Its good to know that those variables were known from a benchmarking standpoint with the SCC test mule. It also sounds like someone running a higher octane fuel would definitely have a potential edge in performance and dyno testing. Perhaps that is what gave gtr his higher numbers in comparison.

Thats nothing but good news though, particularly from a forward looking perspective. I think the EVO enthusiast/owner group anticipates great things from you, and the rest of the tuners that will be focusing their efforts on the EVO.

As far as the "ringer" factor I will keep an open mind regarding the possibility, and respect your personal "inside line" experiences. I can remember people talking about these kinds of manufacturers antics with a number of other cars like the GN and Syclone to name a few.Anything is possible.

Thanks again for taking the time, and keep us posted on any new developments on the tuning front.

Jeff