Well i got to check out the Works site yesterday and finally saw a change in their products, in that there was actually products . Now guys i am really excited about what I see, what do you all think of the new products. Personally, Im just chill'n before i make any mods and as of now Works seems to be the company that I will be dealing with entirely.

 

Doesn't really look that great to me. Wait a while and we will all be flooded with quality products from the big manufacturers sucjh as HKS, Greddy, etc...

 

(cough) hype (cough) no HP/torque numbers (cough) no dyno graphs (cough) disingenuous marketing

Sorry, I've got SABCS (sudden acute bullsh*t calling syndrome).

Where's the beef?

 

Agreed. Way too much hype. Sounds like they have some tech brains in the organization but the website seems to contain nothing more than vapid marketing hype. I would never buy into something that I had to pay to upgrade each time I wanted to modify my system.

 

Q: How long did we wait for U.S. EVO to arrive? A: 10 years since it was introduced to the world.

How long are people willing to sit tight for OEM caliber re-tuning of their new $30k+ cars? Some need a quick fix now. Some are willing to wait a bit longer.

It stands to reason that it is easier to rush to market with a piggyback system and cash in on an impatient audience who want their cars making extra power right now than it is to take the time and fully develop OEM quality mapping of the factory ECU. Likewise, it is faster/cheaper to offer bolt-on hardware without any ECU tuning whatsover, than it is to only offer engine performance bolt-ons that each have their own ECU reflash that comes with it.

However, using ECUs for example, we at WORKS would rather take the extra time to fully develop -- and this means extensive R&D -- an ECU upgrade that goes inside the car's brain and addresses everything from ignition mapping, to air/fuel ratios, and factory boost mapping, along with removing speed governors, rev limiters, etc. These are all operating parameters inside your car’s brain that no piggyback could ever hope to address and makes it unnecessary to purchase a separate boost controller or other hardware.

We have no qualms about our competitors claiming big power gains out of piggybacks. They have their approach, and we have ours.

Let’s look more closely at what WORKS is offering from a “bang for the buck” perspective: Say for example, you were to buy our Brain reflash along with our Exhale Exhaust and Aperture Throttle Body now, we would optimize the flash for the products you have ordered and give you a $200 credit ($100 each) for the Exhaust and Throttle Body upgrades.

Let's say down the line, you decide you want even more power and decide to order our WORKS intercooler piping upgrade kit and water injection. Having already bought the ECU reflash, you are entitled to one free reflash for your next order with us. So, you would again be saving $100 for each item that you ordered (in this case, another $200 credit) and your ECU would be reflashed to optimize the full line of WORKS products that are on your EVO.

What we are not offering is the kind of deal where we send you a pre-mapped piggyback that we have sitting on the shelf, and when you need a re-tune, you are left on your own.

You see, WORKS is interested in building relationships with our customer base. We record your VIN number and log the mods on your car when you send your ECU in for a reflash. We are interested in taking a long-term approach to your project, to ensure that we are here to meet your needs every step of the way. While we would love to offer re-flashing for our competitors products (and in fact, some of our ECU tuning may work perfectly well with our competitors hardware), it is simply not logistically possible for us to carefully study every exhaust, intake and other bolt-on modification on the market by every manufacturer out there and offer a reflash optimized for it. The best we can do is thoroughly test our own line of products, and ensure that the reflash you get from us is 100% dead on for the hardware that we offer.

If at the end of the day, your concern is how much additional power does “X” approach net me compared to “Y”, I would urge you to look carefully at what you are buying. What do you think will make more power? An air/fuel controller or a comprehensive re-tune of your air/fuel mapping along with ignition mapping, boost mapping, rev limit removal, speed governor removal etc.? The answer should be clear, even without WORKS putting official dyno numbers out just yet. Rest assured, the numbers we present will bear out the results that you as an EVO enthusiast are expecting. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t be putting our products on the market.

Over the coming weeks and months, you will see WORKS taking our products to the track and participating in various EVO tuner shootouts in the media. Obviously, we believe in our approach enough to stake our reputation on it -- even if it means losing some sales to the impatient crowd.

-- DavidV

 

 

Wow, that's a first for the bay area -

A business model looking for a product!

 

Even though that was a dig at us, it is still funny as hell.

-- DavidV

 

 

Based on their involvement in the racing world, I think Works has the chops.

The marketing hype is just such a turn off though. It almost seems as if they are marketing the latest multimedia entertainment system designed especially for my mini-van, not selling parts for tuners/shadetree mechanics with high performance vehicles (it almost smacks of Ronco, lots of vague "woo woo" and no facts). The music has got to go (just my opinion).

So far, it looks like the marketing department at Works has done it's job of convincing them that they need a marketing department and some slick ad copy.

Questions for David: Exactly how would this ECU reprogramming work for someone not in your area? Would there be an up front core charge, then you send me a reprogrammed unit or is my car down while its ECU is in transit? Is that on your site somewhere and I just missed it? What is the ETA for getting the technical scoop on your products. I am very interested, but I am concerned that these kind of things can drag on and am wary of the lack of any information.

 

Or even something like the Power Programmer that Hypertech offers for some GM trucks would be cool.. it downloads the stock settings and stores it.. then uploads the new program.. does it through the OBD-II DIAG port.. I do know that you can flash the ECU through the Mitsu DIAG port, or the OBD-II port, I came across the tool that does it when I was on that Mitsubishi technicians website.

 

David,

Understand your rationale and appreciate the detailed post.

However, your marketing tactics too closely resemble the model we are currently witnessing regarding the STi-vs EVO. Wait it's coming and it'll be better. Our solution is better, more displacement instead of more boost. A technologically superior product. Just be patient, it'll be worth your while... STi makes press appearance and voila...not so black and white.

After having patiently waited, many prospective STi buyers are now going to EVOs because they are plain tired of waiting for something that is not going to be an uncontested winner. Some will continue to wait hoping they will like it better. Some will continue to wait and profess they like it better even if it does not meet their expectations. The human mind has an infinite capacity to rationalize. At the end of the day the analysis of whether or not the wait was worthwhile remains to be seen and at best will be highly subjective. I got off a #3 Sti order in March and have been driving my EVO for almost three months now. Looks as though that #3 spot may take until the end of the year to be delivered. By then, I will have over 9 months in the EVO, can still evaluate the STi when it finally does become available, and can opt to dump the EVO and get in the STi in 2004 if in my judgement it does a superior job of meeting my needs.

There are reputable sources currently offering extensively developed, matched, and tested upgrades including remappable engine management software solutions that, while not full OEM ECU remaps, are far more capable than your over simplified description implies. Those sources will also offer software upgrades specifically developed to optimize the performance of upgraded combinations of hardware.

When your upgrades finally do become available and if they do in fact offer a combination of superior reliability and performance over the competition, I will then conduct a cost:benefit analysis that will enable an informed purchase decision.

But remember, while you may be the only vendor advertising a future OEM ECU upgrade, rest assured, you are not the only company developing one.

I find myself leaning toward the same rationale that caused me to to walk away from the delivery of an STi "promised" for May, I am reluctant to wait for a performance product-line that, as of this writing, appears not yet mature enough to announce either performance thresholds and objectives or a programmatic delivery schedule. It is an inditement of the marketing decision to release premature announcements. What's with the marketing scam to offer the opportunity to place a pre-order for those products with as yet unquantified performance parameters?

This perception in no way questions your technical expertise or capability to deliver a competitive product but, it does challenge your ability to deliver in a timely fashion.


I look forward to analyzing the results of your efforts when they become available at which time I will compare your offerings to those of the competition.

Lastly, yes, we waited 10 years for the EVO to arrive, but we did not choose to go without a car while we waited.

 

nice and to the point... I'm not bashing works... might buy from them depending on the time line...

 

i was thinking about buying the Works Tarmac wheels, but for the price i can get Volks cheaper and they look nicer and are just as strong is not stronger...

$699 for a plain looking wheel like that is a little ridiculous...

 

Are the Volk wheels you are talking about made from forged aluminum? Prices for these Works Tarmacs are about average MSRP for a good forged wheel.

On the other hand $279.00 for a "pretty" tail pipe ($379 w/reflash) seems ridiculous.

http://www.worksrally.com/index2.php...cts/0001.html#