OK, im thinking about buying a new car, well i am going to. I know your probably tired of hearing this, but i tried the search and didnt get what im looking for, well...Im stuck on the Evo and the Sti. I know the Sti is more expensive, but it has .5 more litres! It also has lower stock boost, meaning mroe capable for tuning, right? Well whats your 2 cents? I know stock, every magazine says the Evo. But it has higher boost! Im leading to believe the STi will be better in the end because of 6spd and .5 more litres. I know which ever one i get it wont be stock. I love the Driver controlled Center Differential on the STi. Does the EVO 8 have the AYC? is it cockpit controllable? Alright, well just input whatever u think u need to say to convice, thanks!

 

Right now the only facts are that Buschur Racing has obtained 90 hp with less than $2k in mods. Who knows what the STi will be capable of...for right now it's all speculation.

Don't worry about the 19.5 psi vs. 14 psi. There's more to forced induction than just PSI, there's also CFM and efficiency to think about.

It's not AYC it's ACD and it's not available. Don't worry about it...the car handles amazingly without the ACD. And if you read the C&D article the DCCD didn't help them obtain any better track times. Just a cool toy.

Also, if you're looking at modding the car for high horsepower. Remember that hp=heat. The EVO, in my opinion, has a better cooling solution with the FMIC and the heat vent vs. the hood scoop and TMIC.

 

Have you ever heard of the 4g63? Possibly one of the best tuning engines in the world. Guess what engine the Evo has?

Granted, the STi has .5 more liters, but it's a brand new engine that's unproven and has no existing performance parts for it.

The Evo engine has been around for over 11 years and most of the stuff for the previous generations fit as a bolt on to the engine in the Evo VIII.

To me, there is no question which one is a better "tuner" engine.

 

Alright thanks, i needed someone to persuade me back over to the Evolution. Ive always loved them. But i was kind of lookign forward to ACD (whats that stand for, i thought it was "sumpin" Yaw Control). I like oversteer, grip is great, but i just like to have it when i need it. Im not tlaking about the PSI for performance, im talking about psi for safety. 20+ psi is pretty damn high, doesnt look like u can get it any higher with some big mods. 14 is easily upgradeable with safety. But liek i said, ive always loved the Evolution, i never really like Mitsu, just the Evo. But that Sti look pretty promising. Oh...how is the LSD on the Evo? Will it kill my oversteer dreams? I know the Sti wont have nearly any oversteer. Well i want all the opinions i can get, so i can analyze it all. Thanks

 

Ultimately, no one knows for sure yet. .5 liters should allow for more overall power. We do know the mits 2.0 can handle gobs of power bone stock. My talon took severe abuse with very little engine problems (only problems were self caused). I had a WRX for almost a year and there was massive concerns on the boards about raising boost even slightly without tuning due to part throttle, high EGT concerns. No one knows if STI will have the same comcerns and of course it can be fixed with tuning (not sure how modded you are talking). I personally think it would have been major PIA to do certain mods to my WRX. Up-pipe looked like a pain (many had sealing problems and when it takes that long to put in, how long is it going to take to change that blone out gasket again and again) and inline 4 don't have or need one. Turbo swap, spark plug swap (not trivial when your really pushing an engine), header/exh manifold, cams/head gaskets, swaps should be much easier on mitsu. No one has been able to pin down the exact internals of mitsu engine. If it is in fact forged "anything", I can't see ever hurting this engine, it was pretty bulletproof even before (vice the several years of american made crank walk problems, which all previous year EVO owners generally seem to think there is no problem). I also think the EVO venders had a pretty easy time of making parts, since the chassis/drivetrain is real similar to what they are used to. This helps drive down costs and I think STI parts are not going to be very cheap at first due to the new engine. We can be pretty sure at this point that the mitsu can handle 20 PSI across the rev range with 93 and an AFC. Will the STI be fussy about raising boost and will it need to be pushed as high as the EVO boost to make substantially more power. Right now you are comparing a 2.0 @ 16 PSI (at it's power peak) to a 2.5 @ 14 PSI (I think it was 14??) at it's power peak. Pretty close in boost and only 30 more (10%) crank HP.

As for drivetrain crap. Most either can't drive at the limit cause they can't drive OR they can't drive at the limit cause they'd lose their lisc. in a week. The EVO limts are so high (and I'm sure STI is in the same boat), I need to be going double the posted speed limit in any given corner before it even starts to matter. How many days a week can the average person get away with that.

 

for the last time PSI is a relitive number. different snails will produce different PSI numbers for similar results. Example: a big turbo (T88) running 15 psi on a 4G63 is a monster while a small turbo (16g) gives the car low lag, but low max power. you can't compare the 14.5 PSI on the STi turbo to the 18.5 PSI on the Evo - they are different snails and the numbers are relitive only to themselves.

The 4G63 has been around for many years, and powered Evos, Galants, and DSMs successfully in rally, road, and 1/4 mile racing. The 2.5L in the STi is an unknown with no racing & aftermarket history. It might turn out to be an absolute monster, and it might be a dud, only time will tell. The STi is a very competent platform, as is the Evo. Chassis wise, they are probably equal. From the factory the Evo is a little harsher (but not harsh enough imo).

You need to decide which is a better package for you, as I doubt you will be disappointed with either car - both are great values with great raing histories. If the USDM STi had the 2.0L flat-4 I would have considered it more. But, at the end of the day, I am 100% confident that I ended up with the right car. Drive both 0 better yet - find good drivers to ride with in well broken in cars - and then decide for yourself.

 

It depends what your tuning goals are. Right now the Evo is a strong choice for tuning potential as it is a known entity.

As far as the STi engine's ultimate potential, only time will tell. My guess is that it will eventually be a better bang for the buck up to the ~+50-75 whp level. Then the 4G63 will probably rule for really high power applications. Why? Because basically all of the bolt-on parts for the WRX (exhausts, intercoolers, boost controllers, turbos, etc.) fit the new car. BTW, the STi does not have an uppipe cat, so that whole pain in the butt will not be an issue. The 4G63 has so many hours of high power tuning development and it is such a tough cookie that it has huge advantage.

There are two big unknowns for STi tuners, how much can the stock VF39 efficiently flow and how long will the new ECU take to crack. Other issues such as AVCS and the electronic throttle haven't been a problem in Japan (Forester STis have had the DBW ). Another unknown is the strength of the block and internals, but since there have been so many design improvements over JDM STi pieces (which already do pretty well) we'll also have to wait to see.

Since STis are arriving at dealers now, it will only be a month or two until people start reporting how they react to mods. It will surely be exciting.

TRS

 

Tuning potential, and cost benefit per mod...EVOLUTION, all the way!

I do like the STi drivetrain(Tranny and diffs...plus longitudal...I like better) much better, but the chassis is not comparable...EVO pretty much OWN subaru if you are looking to mod...

Just my opinions...I just really don't like what the US got for an EVO...we will see what comes next year...maybe a LSD up in the front and a 6 speed...then I will be, pretty much, totally sold on the EVO...

Just a working mans opinions, mind you!

 

both are equally good for tuning. cuz if your gonna do REAL tuning and REAL upgrades, they should be either custom parts or universal parts or both.

custom- exhaust manifold/turbo/exhaust/intake/intercooler

universal- boost controller/wastegate/fuel and ingnition computer

just like all the shops making 90+hp with certain $$$$ all are custom parts they made up (no bolt on affairs) ,and you can get the same work done (well depending on where you live and who you know)

 

Wow long long replys. Put it like this thw 4g63 engine has beenaround far longer then the sti engine. Also has been around longer. I would say both are going to be real close, but I think will have a wider range. Another reason how long have we all waited for this car. The Evo has much more hype then the Sti does I think. Put it this way both will have plenty.

 

yall r forgetting. the STi looks a LOT nicer than the normal WRX.... but its still not too eye appealing.... looks matter too....especially when the performance of the sti/evo are basically the same.... the evo looks 100x nicer!

 

I agree I also hate the looks of the STI if I was a little then I would be ok with the STI, but only if I was in the STI would I be seen in 1

 

4G63 is a real good motor to start with. I have plenty on friends here that have well over 350+ hp and some over 400 to the wheels. All motors being pretty much stock besides some cams.

As far as the yaw control and all the nice electronic stuff. Don't worry about it. Just more stuff to go wrong. I personally was utterly amazed how well the EVO handled.

About having a 6-speed. C&D praised the 5 speed and said there was no need for a 6-speed in the EVO. I have a 6-speed and it's not all it's cracked up to be. You find yourself shifting alot more, that's all. I miss my 5-speed in my ITR.

As far as looks go, the EVO mops the STI in this department. Non-EVO people don't like the rear wing, but it looks alot better than the STI's by far. The only thing the EVO doesn't have going in the looks department is the tail lights. That'll be the first thing to go when I get mine. <Note to self> Order EVO VII tails before I get my EVO in two weeks.

Take it from someone who is experiencing the first year of a car. You don't want to do it. I'm having nothing but problems with my Cobra with this new engine setup. The EVO is a proven car that has been built for quite some time now.

Good luck on your choice. Hope you make the right one. I didn't, now I'm kicking myself in the ***** everyday til I trade it in.

 

TrizzyDizzy,

I know you are taking tuning into you purchase equation but sourcing you vehicle is important too. The STi will be made in much lower numbers 3600 v 6500 (Automobile 06/03) and the
Subaru dealership will be gouging for awhile. I can get an EVO today in any color I want slightly below sticker here in Austin, TX.

The biggest factor for me and this is huge to fix on the STi is the slower steering rack. My wife has a WRX and the steering is appalling compared to my S2000. Now I know the STi has quicker rack than the WRX but it is not a fast as the EVO. This is a major reason the EVO feels better handling that the STi even though there numbers are more or less equal in lateral G's and slalom times. A new steering rack in the STi will go for about $1K. And then you will still have to fix the understeer problems. This coupled with the fact the 2.5L STi power plant is a non-JDM, non-WRC means that the tuning options will be less and more expensive.

Tough decision...

Good luck,

Bill
2001 Honda S2000 (On the way out)