I gave both an evo and an E46 M3. While the M3 is just an awesome car i needed something that is a comfortable daily driver. After test driving the evo, i fell in love and left the dealer with one. I find it is fun to drive no matter the situation, even in traffic i find it to not be as painful as the M3. Just figured it would add my 2 cents!

 

Thanks for the input. I'm not actually deciding between the Evo and an M3, I was just using the M3 for comparison purposes. I need something with 4 doors.

Where in CT are you? If [when] I buy an Evo, we'll have to all get together, maybe up at Limerock for a track day or something.

 

The stick on the M3 doesn't have a good feel, the SMG is great for around town, instant gear selection, but it's not great on the track, mainly because it doesn't blip the throttle during braking, so you still have to heel n toe. Ridiculous.

I don't think the extra cc's of the Scooby are going to cure turbo lag, or make it like an M3 delivery of power. It's still a turbo car with low compression, and I doubt 500cc's are going to be significant, but I haven't driven one.

 

My brother has a 98 M3, no mods. The turbo lag was just long enough for him to relax, then throw him into a panic when it boosted. All I could do was laugh...

 

i thought the m3 smg did match revs when downshifting and braking. i swear it did when i test drove one. i know it matched revs when i was siimply gearing up and down.

 

I Drove an 323 2000 for 3 years before I purchased the Evo. The Evo will embarrass the 323 / 330 in many ways.

It would be a mistake to try to out accelerate the Evo from 0-60 or even 5-60.

 

I realize that the Evo will make the 323 look like it's standing still. The 323 is going, I just need to decide what is taking it's place. Actually, the 330 measured a quicker 5-60 time (6.5 seconds versus 6.7 for the Evo) in Car and Driver. That's with 225hp/214lb-ft versus 271hp/273lb-ft.

Anyway, it's good to hear so many people aren't bothered by the Evo's lag. That was basically the only performance shortcoming picked out by the magazine articles: turbo lag and non-linear power delivery. I guess it comes with the territory, but this is the first turbo car I will have owned.

 

It certainly does help - one of the areas where the STi was much faster was the 5-60 roll-on start. It was around 5.4 seconds, I believe. But it is not just the displacement alone that achieves this. Likely the turbo is optimized for low-to-midrange grunt, for one. And the USDM STi comes with dual intake and exhaust AVCS, which spreads the power around more than the Evo. At 1000rpms, it's a 2.5-litre NA vs. a 2.0-litre NA with more aggressive gearing and the same weight. At 1500rpm's, it's getting boost going.

That's why I support more displacement. The 4G63 is a great engine, but there are inherent limitations to it's size - ditto for the 2.0-litre STi.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

 

I see what you mean.

If you have driven a normal WRX this may help you.

I went end drove the normal WRX 3 times, all 3 times I could not get over how much turbo leg it has. So, I waited over a whole year for the Evo.

I had reservations before I drove the Evo. It is a completely different experience.

I don't think you will be disappointed with either car.

 

It is very significant. I'm still in break-in and it has so much more low-end torque, you really don't think "turbo" until you feel some boost come in around 2000 rpm (at moderate throttle no less!) then you think "turbo with low end torque!"

The engine loves to rev. Partly due to short gearing (you can skip 3rd or 4th if you want). Good thing it has a little light and buzzer go off to let you know when you hit redline (or break-in rpm, or whatever you want).

The 6speed is another reason the STi is good from a roll. Although a lot of Evo owners like the 5 speed, when Mitsu brings over the 6 speed, it will help with in gear acceleration quite a bit.

TRS

 

By my calculations, 5 MPH in 1st gear in the Evo is about 900 RPM.

In any spirited takeoff from 0, there is no way you'll see 900 RPM. You'd have to try really hard to get the clutch fully engaged before reaching 5 MPH. Even when I'm driving my wife and kids around and driving like a "dad", I probably don't fully engage the clutch until something between 1500 - 2000 RPM (8 to 11 MPH).

 

If you're tires are jumping from 0 MPH to 8-11MPH it sounds like something is slipping, either the tires or the clutch. Since this car won't slip all 4 tires on tarmac (at least not with the stock clutch) it sounds like you're taking a little off of the top of your clutch everytime you start. Next time you're kids ask you, "Daddy, what's that smell?" you can answer with confidence: "That's clutch kids!"

 

Oh, no, I'm not jumping from 0 to 8-11 MPH, not at all - it's a smooth gentle acceleration. I'm just stating what a normal non-aggressive street start is like, for me anyway -- clutch fully depressed, rev engine to about 2000 RPM, let clutch out smoothly, let revs drop a bit and the clutch engages fully somewhere between 1500-2000 RPM. No smell. Note that I had my car dynoed the other day, and it only has about 40 HP at the wheels at 2000 RPM. Not nearly enough power to cause significant clutch wear.

Are you saying that during a normal non-aggressive street start, you keep the revs well below 1500-2000 RPM?

 

I'll have to think about all of this the next time I start from a stop in my car. I'll get back to you.

When your clutch pedal is completely out, how fast are you going? Faster than 5MPH?

I was just thinking, if you're going from a stand still and not driving hard, you've got to have the clutch disengaged at 5MPH, and if you don't have it completely disengaged, you're slipping it. Are you saying then that if you are driving normally, you would beat the 5-60 time in the magazines, since you skip right over 5MPH and start going #MPH (whatever 1500-2000 RPM equates to)? Like I said, I need to go drive and get back to this after I check it out in my car.

 

Definitely faster than 5 MPH. As I stated in my first post in this topic, 5 MPH in 1st gear is about 900 RPM, which is the idle speed of the Evo. I can't imagine letting the engine drop to idle speed during a start from 0. Perhaps that might be the easier on the clutch, but Geo Metros will be beating you off the line. And actually putting any significant load on the engine at idle speed is not doing your engine any favors.