Couldn't a reflashed ECU also hold boost to 19 at redline?? (assuming stock mechanicals are up to it) Maybe still not a 50 HP increase, but would help a lot with the A/F and timing changes.

 

Bushur claims 30whp with simple AFC fuel tuning alone... Our Evo ECUs pull timing all the way down to 2 degrees while running pig rich... Reflashed ECUs can change fuel map, timing maps, boost map, rev limits, and fuel cut. Bushur made a claimed 90whp over stock with fuel manipulation and intake and exhaust piping upgrades. So what is to stop someone from optimising all of the above limits with a reflash to the tune of 50whp? With the right maps and around 24 psi (most I believe you can get out of the OE injectors with careful tuning), what's to stop you from getting 50+whp? What, just because other OE cars in the past didn't come with the hardware to do so? Is it a case of no one has done it, so it can't be done? I guess what I'm getting at is that it looks very posible with what you have to work with here. It's not like trying to break 100hp per liter in a NA four banger... Oh wait!..

 

Thanks Zeus, thats is what I have read from the Works page on what a reflash can change.

Let the pool begin,,,,,,,,, Ill stick at 50 whp....320hp with just a reflashed ECU.

I cant believe people arnt more excited about this?????

 

DAVID --- where are you? Keep checking looking for updated info. I spoke to you on the tel and sounds like this may be a good setup for me. Not planning on any additional mods or tuning... just want a plug and play for slightly better power delivery... more of it and more even delivery past 5krpm. Hurry up and post those numbers!!

 

Mean TT - Just to make sure you know I am familiar with VW/Audis, I have owned a number of VW/Audi cars including a 2000 S4 sedan w/MTM stage 1 ecu upgrade, and a 2001 S4 sedan with an ABT ECU/Miltek exhaust. More recently I went through a Turbo S Beetle, and a stage 2 337 GTI.

The numbers I listed for the VW are taken directly from dyno info that can be found here-
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=679858

The car in the test was a 337 GTI with the AWP/180hp engine which uses the K03"S". The "S" has the larger K04 compressor wheel and is very capable of pushing some pretty decent air..and hp!

If you check the thread link out, you will see the originator is a gal by the name of IMurSTAR. You will see her baseline runs on the Springfield Motors dynojet, and then a little further down the page she has another chart from the same dyno/shop with a 93 octane Oberscheider O.ct chip and a Hyperboost DV valve. She did throw in a K&N for one run and saw some torque improvement but no hp improvement.

The dyno runs were made prior to the install of the Milltek TB exhaust I sold her. I just spoke with her tonight and she has yet to do a dyno session since installing the exhaust. BTW she does all of her own install work...my kind of gal!

I was pretty pumped to see her numbers as I had sold her my chip, Miltek exhaust w/ DP-race cat, and Hyperboost DV as a package before selling my 337. It was nice to see such good numbers coming from the Oberscheider chip. I was actually the first person in the US to trial the O.ct chip for Pete and Bob at Stratmosphere, and man was it an excellent chip(the best I have ever driven to date!)!

Oberscheider spends hundreds of hours on ECU tuning on their million dollar Maha dyno and the results are a power band that is almost exactly like the stock curve......only on steroids.This means no weird boost ramps or timing pulls, just smoothe, solid powerful acceleration pulls.

I easily clicked-off a 6.08 sec 0-60 with my 337 before adding the DP/cat pipe. I have no doubt that I could have nailed a 5.8-9 with the full turbo-back. More than just acceleration and peak hp numbers though, the Oberscheider chip was tuned for power under the curve. This is what sets a good chip apart from the mediocre, and guarantees the best power and drivability possible.

If Works or RMR can do the same thing with the EVO ECU flash tuning then they will be making lots of money once people start to see the dyno results and more importantly get to drive a car equipped in this fashion.

I am currently on for the Works ECU pre-order and can hardly wait!

Sorry for the long rebuttal! I should have included that dyno link originally!

Jeff

 

What is the hold up for posting dyno chart? This was post already 2 weeks ago by Wing240.

 

I saw the Works car on the dyno yesterday. It was putting down 238WHP with nothing but the ECU. I saw it with my own 2 eyes...they were in front of me on the rollers...BTW, they went over 15 minutes on the Dyno!

Guys were cool...the skinny white guy was a really nice guy.

I had to pawn that with my WRX though...on a primative I laid down 260WHP and had alot more to go...that was only 17PSI on pump gas too!

TRUMPED BABY!

ANdy

 

Hmmm...I guess we will be hearing from David pretty quickly now!

The big question is if the number is 238whp, with just ECU tuning, whats the original baseline? Until we know that reference 238 is just a number that could be good or mediocre!

Thanks for sharing the info BADWRX!

 

I thought baseline was 240hp at the wheel.

 

BADWRX - What make of Dyno are they using? This will help to estimate what the stock baseline numbers are until we get the official release.

Dynojet AWD dynos have documented stock baselines between 215-240 WHP on 93 Octane here in the D.C. area.

You can see 238WHP on a Dynojet AWD with 93 octane is nothing, on 91 octane it's probably @ 5% increase over stock still nothing to write home about.

Dyno Dynamics AWD dynos have shown an average around 180-190 WHP on 91 Octane and 190-200 WHP on 93 Octane.

On the other hand, if these numbers were recorded on a Dyno Dynamics AWD machine on 91 octane, 238 WHP is about a 28% increase over stock which would be awesome, and I think either unsafe or BS. Even on 93 octane, 238 WHP would be an increase of @ 22% which is still very substantial for an otherwise stock car and I again think BS from ECU mapping alone.

I do not believe that 22-28% increases in WHP are obtainable from responsibly tuned factory ECU that will retain the drivability and durability required for everyday use.

Has anyone posted increases of this magnitude using SAFC and EBC/MBC on a stock car while retaining safe boost and AF settings? That's basically what we are talking about when focusing the objective on peak increases alone. The stock ECU's tendency to pull timing @ WOT in upper RPM range is due to knock which can be mitigated fairly well with A/F settings alone. This would seem to minimize any notable peak performance improvements that may otherwise be obtained with the remapped ECU's ability to modify the timing map.

Show me the 22-28% increase. At a minimum it will require an exhaust upgrade.

Cam timing will significantly improve performance also, but that's not possible to do using stock parts.

Anxiously awaiting evidence to the contrary.

 

Well, AMS shows a 53 WHP gain using an MBC to increase boost by 2psi and using the S-AFC, I am fairlyy sure that the car is otherwise stock.. Correct me if I am wrong...

http://www.automotosports.com/evo2_test.asp

I have the same setup running a bit more boost and it is a very big differnce from stock. I do not have an exhaust or intake modification. I have not been on a dyno, but thier results are not a suprise as my car really feels stronger. AN exhaust would make a big improvement from that point with no doubts.

 

Quote:

Show me the 22-28% increase. At a minimum it will require an exhaust upgrade.

Cam timing will significantly improve performance also, but that's not possible to do using stock parts.

So show us your experience to this effect with an Evo...

 

That was a tweaked ECU on Advanced Tuning Products DynoJet dyno. ATP's dyno reads really really low too.

They were doing R&D...car was filthy as hell...he said that they had just done a rallycross.

I was suprised at the A:F ratios that the EVO runs. On the EJ20, you should stay around 10.5-10.9:1. I noticed that the EVO runs much leaner...like 14:1 and then ramping down into the 12's. No wonder you guys have so much horsepower!

I heard no detonation on the motor, so they must be doing something right.

Just so you know...ATP's DYNO ACTUALLY READ THE SAME CAR (1WRX2NV's Vishnu stage 2 WRX) 7HP LOWER than Shiv's Dyno Dynamics setup. So keep this in mind when passing judgement.

 

If the A/F ratios looked like that on the Works EVO then they are doing some serious fuel management. This seems a little risky if they are running these kinds of numbers on 91 octane.You might get away with that on 93-94 octane though, so who knows? BADWRX mentioned that they had just come from a rally so I have to assume that the particular car being tested was running race fuel, and that the dyno session in question may not have any bearing on the production ECU re-flash product.Just a thought

Its easy to get anxious when bits and pieces of info start to dribble in, and you start trying to reverse engineer the results. I think until we have the formal data, we are just going to have wait patiently. David?