Direct Injection of E85
Jun 6, 2007, 10:13 AM
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Direct Injection of E85
In the latest issue of C&D (Csaba Csere's article on page 13) he talks about a company that is working on direct injection of E85. It sounds similar to alcohol injection except that AI is injected into the intake and they are proposing direct injection of the E85 "on-demand". Their presentation is at http://www.ethanolboost.com/EBS_Overview.pdf
Would there be any benefit to filling up a AI kit with E85 if tuned properly.
Would there be any benefit to filling up a AI kit with E85 if tuned properly.
Jun 6, 2007, 10:45 AM
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I am surprised no one has piped up yet.
I am by no means an expert in this area, but after looking through the slides, E85 injection seems like something that would be really cool and fun to mod up an Evo with. More performance with adding an occasional trip to an E85 station every now and then.
I am by no means an expert in this area, but after looking through the slides, E85 injection seems like something that would be really cool and fun to mod up an Evo with. More performance with adding an occasional trip to an E85 station every now and then.
Jun 6, 2007, 11:37 AM
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Something to keep in mind:
Ethanol will eat away plastics and some steels.
E85 is *fuel*. Injecting it into your intake would be like just hooking up the wet side of a Wet Injection Nitrous system. Without the added air, you'll run really rich, so you'll have to have your ECU back down on your fuel when the E85 is being injected.
Ethanol will also break down oil, just like meth. So if you over-inject you'll get bore-wash same as meth, and also shorten the life of your oil.
Ethanol is as pricey or moreso than regular fuel right now, due to distribution issues linked to the first point up above. You'll only find it in major metro areas.
The only benefit I see to E85 is the increased octane, but the drawbacks for an engine not designed for it are daunting. Really, if you're looking for a way to spike your octane on demand, why not use race fuel?
I see what they are trying to do, but it looks more like a solution in search of a problem. They are suggesting E85, not pure Ethanol, which means it's still 15% gasoline you're injecting. Water/Methanol works just fine and is more widely available for the purpose they are suggesting, and it is easier to retrofit.
Ethanol will eat away plastics and some steels.
E85 is *fuel*. Injecting it into your intake would be like just hooking up the wet side of a Wet Injection Nitrous system. Without the added air, you'll run really rich, so you'll have to have your ECU back down on your fuel when the E85 is being injected.
Ethanol will also break down oil, just like meth. So if you over-inject you'll get bore-wash same as meth, and also shorten the life of your oil.
Ethanol is as pricey or moreso than regular fuel right now, due to distribution issues linked to the first point up above. You'll only find it in major metro areas.
The only benefit I see to E85 is the increased octane, but the drawbacks for an engine not designed for it are daunting. Really, if you're looking for a way to spike your octane on demand, why not use race fuel?
I see what they are trying to do, but it looks more like a solution in search of a problem. They are suggesting E85, not pure Ethanol, which means it's still 15% gasoline you're injecting. Water/Methanol works just fine and is more widely available for the purpose they are suggesting, and it is easier to retrofit.
Jun 6, 2007, 11:43 AM
#5
"Direct injection" typically means injecting the fuel into the combustion chamber, rather than into the intake manifold....allowing more flexibility in injector on time as well as using extremely high fuel pressure to fully atomize the fuel during the injection process rather than using the heat of the intake valve to complete the process
you see this used primarily is diesels. since they use no spark to initate combustion, varying the injection time of the fuel can have serious benifits as far as power, emmisions & drivability
you see this used primarily is diesels. since they use no spark to initate combustion, varying the injection time of the fuel can have serious benifits as far as power, emmisions & drivability
Jun 6, 2007, 11:48 AM
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E85 can't be too harnful for our cars now, can it? As it stands now, the fuel we use here in CT is atleast 10% ethanol. Wouldn't that mean that we pump 1.3 gallons of this stuff through our system as it is right now. I don't doubt that the controllers of fuel just don't care but our cars must already be suffering from ethanol death if this is true.
Jun 6, 2007, 11:51 AM
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"Direct injection" typically means injecting the fuel into the combustion chamber, rather than into the intake manifold....allowing more flexibility in injector on time as well as using extremely high fuel pressure to fully atomize the fuel during the injection process rather than using the heat of the intake valve to complete the process
you see this used primarily is diesels. since they use no spark to initate combustion, varying the injection time of the fuel can have serious benifits as far as power, emmisions & drivability
you see this used primarily is diesels. since they use no spark to initate combustion, varying the injection time of the fuel can have serious benifits as far as power, emmisions & drivability
I think one reason why you don't see meth injection or a similar system in mainstream production cars is because of the second tank needed. Joe Public is easily confused and forgetful. They'll either forget to fill it, or put the wrong liquid in the wrong fill hole.
It's a good idea on paper. Just not practical for the average buyer.
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Jun 6, 2007, 11:52 AM
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E85 can't be too harnful for our cars now, can it? As it stands now, the fuel we use here in CT is atleast 10% ethanol. Wouldn't that mean that we pump 1.3 gallons of this stuff through our system as it is right now. I don't doubt that the controllers of fuel just don't care but our cars must already be suffering from ethanol death if this is true.
Jun 6, 2007, 11:53 AM
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E85 can't be too harnful for our cars now, can it? As it stands now, the fuel we use here in CT is atleast 10% ethanol. Wouldn't that mean that we pump 1.3 gallons of this stuff through our system as it is right now. I don't doubt that the controllers of fuel just don't care but our cars must already be suffering from ethanol death if this is true.
Jun 6, 2007, 12:16 PM
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