I'm about to get sued for a track incident, I need your input...
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Hong Kong
I'm about to get sued for a track incident, I need your input...
Hello all,
I will try to describe this as detailed as I can and as unbiased as I can so I can get some good opinions on this.
Basically about 40 cars from Hong Kong arranged a track day meet, and we drove to Zhuhai, China for 3 days (2 track days). The group included a group of about 8-9 EVOs which I went through. It was first time meeting anyone for me, maybe second for couple guys, whereas most other EVO guys have known each other for quite awhile. The 40 cars included several groups like this and most groups were kind of strangers to the others. It was first time ever for me for road racing. No problems for the first two days, but problem occured on 3rd day (2nd track day).
The EVO group had an EVO only 'shootout' as planned, and it involved 9 cars. The rule was that they would list out an order of cars, and we would maintain the place for a warm up lap then the race starts at the last turn of the lap.
The cars are as follows (in order for the race):
A - VII GTA, Silver/Blue
B - IX, White (me)
C - VII, Yellow (the person that is planning on sueing me)
D - VI TME, Blue (Had in car camera which captured some of the race, also the organizer for EVO group)
The rest I don't remember the order, but here is the list:
E - I, Red
F - IX, White
G - IX, White
H - VII, Silver
I - Cannot remember, but I think it was a WRX
The track has 14 turns, most are tight hairpin-like, and two high speed ones. It has no elevations or banks. It has one long straight where you'd hit 5th gear with stock car (mine is almost stock). Half way on the straight is where they would consider the start/finish point and is next to the pit. There is a big bridge above it for warning calls, and someone would also flag around there.
So we begin, driving at pacing speed, zig zagging once inawhile to warm up tires. Then we hit the final turn of the warm up lap, so the race was on.
Car A (VII GTA) loses control and spins out into the sand. I hesitate for a bit but seeing that it is safe infront, I decide to go on. Supposedly warning was hoisted sometime around this time but I did not notice. It was hoisted after I passed the start/finish line with the bridge where light would show, if that is the case, I didn't even get a chance to see. But either by concentrating too much on the road or not getting a chance to see, I did not notice the warning and continued at full blast. According to the car D (organizer) as well as the person sueing me (car C), everyone else was aware of the warning sign.
No problems so far first three quarters of the lap, I kept going unaware of the warning, as the bridge was the only indicating point (no announcements etc) and was the leading car. Other cars followed behind me, not bumper to bumper, but 2-3 car length behind (according to car C).
I can't remember the exact turn, but at about 3/4 of the lap, I entered one of those tight hairpin like turns. I braked little late and part of my car went past the shoulder and onto the grass just as I was exiting the turn. It was from mid to end of 2nd gear. My car is near stock with stock gearing, so this would mean about 50-60mph.
Then suddenly the rear broke loose before I got into third and I spun out rotating slowly still moving forward direction. I heard car C letting go of the gas, which he also claims. He claims he was in third gear because he wasn't driving competitively due to warning sign, but we all were travelling no faster than 60mph at that moment. So he had few choices, 1. slow down, 2. drive out to the grass, 3. try to drive pass my spinning car. He chose #3, reason being he didn't want to risk being hit from behind from slowing down, or running into a wall driving onto the grass (which I don't see how it can happen at that speed).
So he floors it driving pass my spinning car, but by then my car was about to complete one rotation and my front rotated into his rear quarterpanels. He lost control of his car and it turns almost 90 degrees and went straight into walls past the grass. It ended up with me having clipped front (very minor damage), and his car almost totalled (frame bent slightly at the bottom of the car, engine bay pretty crunched up). No one was hurt other than him having sprained neck.
His claims:
- I violated rules as I didn't follow the warning intentionally or unintentionally
- Since my car was out of control, it is my car that hit him
My claim:
- If everyone else was following the warning as he claims, why were they so near me behind? If I knew about the warning, I would have slowed down, not to 2-3 car length which believes is the reasonable safe distance, but as in like cruise at 50mph in 5th gear to the pit stop.
- It is the fault of following person if they decide to pass my car which he knew was out of control and was spinning in one direction. Would you blame your cam gears for the injury if you stick your finger into it while the car is on?
I will try to respond to anyone with questions for more details as fast as I can. Also if a situation I describe sounds biased please have me rephrase it, my intention here is try to see what is fair to everyone else who might have had some or lots of experience on track, and/or legal system (although it might differ here in HK/China) which could possibly be the result when lawsuit happens.
Thanks everyone.
I will try to describe this as detailed as I can and as unbiased as I can so I can get some good opinions on this.
Basically about 40 cars from Hong Kong arranged a track day meet, and we drove to Zhuhai, China for 3 days (2 track days). The group included a group of about 8-9 EVOs which I went through. It was first time meeting anyone for me, maybe second for couple guys, whereas most other EVO guys have known each other for quite awhile. The 40 cars included several groups like this and most groups were kind of strangers to the others. It was first time ever for me for road racing. No problems for the first two days, but problem occured on 3rd day (2nd track day).
The EVO group had an EVO only 'shootout' as planned, and it involved 9 cars. The rule was that they would list out an order of cars, and we would maintain the place for a warm up lap then the race starts at the last turn of the lap.
The cars are as follows (in order for the race):
A - VII GTA, Silver/Blue
B - IX, White (me)
C - VII, Yellow (the person that is planning on sueing me)
D - VI TME, Blue (Had in car camera which captured some of the race, also the organizer for EVO group)
The rest I don't remember the order, but here is the list:
E - I, Red
F - IX, White
G - IX, White
H - VII, Silver
I - Cannot remember, but I think it was a WRX
The track has 14 turns, most are tight hairpin-like, and two high speed ones. It has no elevations or banks. It has one long straight where you'd hit 5th gear with stock car (mine is almost stock). Half way on the straight is where they would consider the start/finish point and is next to the pit. There is a big bridge above it for warning calls, and someone would also flag around there.
So we begin, driving at pacing speed, zig zagging once inawhile to warm up tires. Then we hit the final turn of the warm up lap, so the race was on.
Car A (VII GTA) loses control and spins out into the sand. I hesitate for a bit but seeing that it is safe infront, I decide to go on. Supposedly warning was hoisted sometime around this time but I did not notice. It was hoisted after I passed the start/finish line with the bridge where light would show, if that is the case, I didn't even get a chance to see. But either by concentrating too much on the road or not getting a chance to see, I did not notice the warning and continued at full blast. According to the car D (organizer) as well as the person sueing me (car C), everyone else was aware of the warning sign.
No problems so far first three quarters of the lap, I kept going unaware of the warning, as the bridge was the only indicating point (no announcements etc) and was the leading car. Other cars followed behind me, not bumper to bumper, but 2-3 car length behind (according to car C).
I can't remember the exact turn, but at about 3/4 of the lap, I entered one of those tight hairpin like turns. I braked little late and part of my car went past the shoulder and onto the grass just as I was exiting the turn. It was from mid to end of 2nd gear. My car is near stock with stock gearing, so this would mean about 50-60mph.
Then suddenly the rear broke loose before I got into third and I spun out rotating slowly still moving forward direction. I heard car C letting go of the gas, which he also claims. He claims he was in third gear because he wasn't driving competitively due to warning sign, but we all were travelling no faster than 60mph at that moment. So he had few choices, 1. slow down, 2. drive out to the grass, 3. try to drive pass my spinning car. He chose #3, reason being he didn't want to risk being hit from behind from slowing down, or running into a wall driving onto the grass (which I don't see how it can happen at that speed).
So he floors it driving pass my spinning car, but by then my car was about to complete one rotation and my front rotated into his rear quarterpanels. He lost control of his car and it turns almost 90 degrees and went straight into walls past the grass. It ended up with me having clipped front (very minor damage), and his car almost totalled (frame bent slightly at the bottom of the car, engine bay pretty crunched up). No one was hurt other than him having sprained neck.
His claims:
- I violated rules as I didn't follow the warning intentionally or unintentionally
- Since my car was out of control, it is my car that hit him
My claim:
- If everyone else was following the warning as he claims, why were they so near me behind? If I knew about the warning, I would have slowed down, not to 2-3 car length which believes is the reasonable safe distance, but as in like cruise at 50mph in 5th gear to the pit stop.
- It is the fault of following person if they decide to pass my car which he knew was out of control and was spinning in one direction. Would you blame your cam gears for the injury if you stick your finger into it while the car is on?
I will try to respond to anyone with questions for more details as fast as I can. Also if a situation I describe sounds biased please have me rephrase it, my intention here is try to see what is fair to everyone else who might have had some or lots of experience on track, and/or legal system (although it might differ here in HK/China) which could possibly be the result when lawsuit happens.
Thanks everyone.
Do those track regulations even have any legal power in the chinese courts? Best thing to do is to hire a lawyer so he could find the laws involved in a track incident. Personally I don't think anyone is completely at fault in that situation.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
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From: florida
He is definitely an idiot if he thinks he can blame you and that he wasn't "driving competitively". He was going slow enough and far enough behind you to not hit you. The fact that he chose to pass you would seem to imply that he was thinking competitively whether or not he thinks that he was driving that way.
If I were him I would be pissed but definitely not at you and I definitely wouldn't try to sue. It’s the track, the place where it is ok for accidents to happen.
I say counter sue for him being an idiot.
If I were him I would be pissed but definitely not at you and I definitely wouldn't try to sue. It’s the track, the place where it is ok for accidents to happen.
I say counter sue for him being an idiot.
Yea dont you sign up for the track with regulations and all that? i know the tracks not responsible but how can he hold someone reliable?? messed up for sure... Lawyer for sure Good luck
General rule on the track is "no fault". Maybe in China it's different. You did mention he had enough time to formulate an action , and being "HE" chose the wrong one, he should suck it up and pay for his own damage. He was in control of his car at the time, and by you spinning, you obviously weren't in control of yours. Not only that, but I thought the notion of the person doing the passing had the responsibility to do it cleanly was worldwide. Once again, if you were out of control, and he picked one of several choices while he was in control, I would think it would be cut and dry. His boo-boo.. We're talking about China here...Hire a lawyer.
lol.. i dont think you have anything to worry about........ you lost control, and he hit you! even if you were driving too fast, you didnt see the warning... he did, and was driving just as fast as you...... he took the gamble in staying close to you, and it bit him in the ***! his fault, not yours!
he says you violated the rules, well so did he! you stated you were going over the limit of what a caution paced lap should be, but you didnt know it was cautioned.. he did! and yet he was right there to get hit! and he claimed he knew the caution was there.. so why was he that close to you?
i would also suggest getting a lawyer, just to be safe... but i bet you could defend yourself and do just fine!
he says you violated the rules, well so did he! you stated you were going over the limit of what a caution paced lap should be, but you didnt know it was cautioned.. he did! and yet he was right there to get hit! and he claimed he knew the caution was there.. so why was he that close to you?
i would also suggest getting a lawyer, just to be safe... but i bet you could defend yourself and do just fine!
i'm not a lawyer, but from what you are describing if indeed there was a warning on the track first of all it should be well indicated by the marshals. If you missed the warning at the start/finish line and went through the 3/4 of the track at full speed and other saw the warning, how the hell the guy ended up 2-3 cars behind you and hitting you?? I think he should be going slowly until there is a green light at the track. Also it was his decision to pass a spinning car, its not like you were behind him and hit him from behind. You lost control and since he decided to pass you at this time he was risking being hit. Any way, probably you will have to get a lawyer to defend yourself, but from what I can read in this post you should not be guilty of the situation. On top of that it was the race track, he new things like this could happen the second he put his car on the track. Also it sounds like the track was not preped very well for this type of event as well.