View Poll Results: Should WORKS warranty my turbo?
yes
16
80.00%
no
4
20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll
Should WORKS warranty my turbo?
Should WORKS warranty my turbo?
In Sept. 2006 WORKS installed a Forced Performance White Rabbit 9 turbo in my car, without using the "Evo9 turbo on Evo8" specific install kit. As a result, the compressor outlet pipe has no clearance from the starter motor, and the constant knocking eventually caused the turbo's internal seals to fail.
I think WORKS should warranty their install labor, and cover for having the turbo removed, rebuild by FP, and reinstalled with the right kit this time. Pete thinks, it's a parts failure and since the turbo is not made by WORKS their warranty doesn't apply. What do you think?
It's over a month now since I first contacted WORKS about this, so I'm hoping that making this public might move things along a little. Here's the full email conversation up to today:
no reply, so I called and was told to email Pete instead ...
four days later I got this:
another 4 day wait and ....
so now I'm thinking this might work out ok, but four days later ...
paying for the battery 
and that's all she wrote .... I'm still puttering around town with 9 psi peak boost, and have not heard from WORKS since 
I think WORKS should warranty their install labor, and cover for having the turbo removed, rebuild by FP, and reinstalled with the right kit this time. Pete thinks, it's a parts failure and since the turbo is not made by WORKS their warranty doesn't apply. What do you think?
It's over a month now since I first contacted WORKS about this, so I'm hoping that making this public might move things along a little. Here's the full email conversation up to today:
Originally Posted by March 1
Hi Oliver,
the WR9 turbo you guys installed for me in sep. '06 has died with blown seals. I've been noticing a gradual decrease in boost over the last couple of weeks, until it wouldn't even hit 15 psi anymore. When I took it apart today, there was oil in the compressor housing and under the car, and when I tried to pressurize the turbo with a capped outlet, the pressure dropped to zero in a matter of seconds. I'm quite certain the internal seals are gone. There's no shaft play and it spools fine, but it won't hold pressure at all.
This turbo has never seen a race-track, and I've probably put less than 10k miles on it (the car has 35k miles now, I forgot what it was when you installed the turbo, but I haven't driven it much). Is this something WORKS or FP would be willing to cover under warranty? I heard that World One Performance is the new official WORKS dealership hereabouts; they do good work so I'd be okay with taking the car there if my "WORKS warranty" applies.
Feel free to give me a ring anytime(xxx-xxx-xxxx) and hopefully we can work something out? Thanks!
Ralph
the WR9 turbo you guys installed for me in sep. '06 has died with blown seals. I've been noticing a gradual decrease in boost over the last couple of weeks, until it wouldn't even hit 15 psi anymore. When I took it apart today, there was oil in the compressor housing and under the car, and when I tried to pressurize the turbo with a capped outlet, the pressure dropped to zero in a matter of seconds. I'm quite certain the internal seals are gone. There's no shaft play and it spools fine, but it won't hold pressure at all.
This turbo has never seen a race-track, and I've probably put less than 10k miles on it (the car has 35k miles now, I forgot what it was when you installed the turbo, but I haven't driven it much). Is this something WORKS or FP would be willing to cover under warranty? I heard that World One Performance is the new official WORKS dealership hereabouts; they do good work so I'd be okay with taking the car there if my "WORKS warranty" applies.
Feel free to give me a ring anytime(xxx-xxx-xxxx) and hopefully we can work something out? Thanks!
Ralph
no reply, so I called and was told to email Pete instead ...
Originally Posted by March 14
Hi Pete,
the WR9 turbo you guys installed for me in sep. '06 has blown
seals. I've been noticing a gradual decrease in boost over the last
couple of weeks, until it wouldn't even hit 15 psi anymore. When I took
a look at it, there was oil in the compressor housing and under the
car, and when I tried to pressurize the turbo with a capped outlet, the
pressure dropped to zero in a matter of seconds. I'm quite certain the
internal seals are gone. There's no shaft play and it spools fine, but
it won't hold pressure at all. It's still on the car and will boost about 10 psi, but then air goes out the leak as fast as the turbo can push it in (you can hear it pretty good). All the pipes etc checked out out fine with no leaks.
This turbo has never seen a race-track, and I've probably put less than
10k miles on it (the car has 35k miles now, I forgot what it was when
you installed the turbo, but I haven't driven it much). Is this
something WORKS would be willing to cover under warranty? I checked with Forced Performance, but they only cover up to a year. I heard
that "World One Performance" is the new official WORKS dealership
hereabouts; they do good work so I'd be okay with taking the car there
if my "WORKS warranty" applies.
Let me know what you think, either email or phone (xxx-xxx-xxxx) is fine. Thanks!
Ralph
the WR9 turbo you guys installed for me in sep. '06 has blown
seals. I've been noticing a gradual decrease in boost over the last
couple of weeks, until it wouldn't even hit 15 psi anymore. When I took
a look at it, there was oil in the compressor housing and under the
car, and when I tried to pressurize the turbo with a capped outlet, the
pressure dropped to zero in a matter of seconds. I'm quite certain the
internal seals are gone. There's no shaft play and it spools fine, but
it won't hold pressure at all. It's still on the car and will boost about 10 psi, but then air goes out the leak as fast as the turbo can push it in (you can hear it pretty good). All the pipes etc checked out out fine with no leaks.
This turbo has never seen a race-track, and I've probably put less than
10k miles on it (the car has 35k miles now, I forgot what it was when
you installed the turbo, but I haven't driven it much). Is this
something WORKS would be willing to cover under warranty? I checked with Forced Performance, but they only cover up to a year. I heard
that "World One Performance" is the new official WORKS dealership
hereabouts; they do good work so I'd be okay with taking the car there
if my "WORKS warranty" applies.
Let me know what you think, either email or phone (xxx-xxx-xxxx) is fine. Thanks!
Ralph
four days later I got this:
Originally Posted by March 18
Hi Ralph, How are you? Long time no talk.
We're sorry this has happened but you are correct that the FP turbo installed in '06 comes with a one year warranty. When we sell other manufacturers products, their warranty applies. And of course when we sell WORKS products, our warranty applies. We try to offer only reputable products and typically FP has been pretty fair.
The best bet would be to have the turbo removed and sent directly to FP for inspection and possibly simple repair. They might be able to provide some insight as to what may have occurred as well.
Please let us know the outcome and good luck.
Pete Kang
WORKS
We're sorry this has happened but you are correct that the FP turbo installed in '06 comes with a one year warranty. When we sell other manufacturers products, their warranty applies. And of course when we sell WORKS products, our warranty applies. We try to offer only reputable products and typically FP has been pretty fair.
The best bet would be to have the turbo removed and sent directly to FP for inspection and possibly simple repair. They might be able to provide some insight as to what may have occurred as well.
Please let us know the outcome and good luck.
Pete Kang
WORKS
Originally Posted by March 18
Hi Pete,
thanks for getting back to me. I have to admit though that I'm disappointed. It took 3 emails, 2 phone calls, and almost 3 weeks for somebody at WORKS to finally give me a reply, and all I get is a polite "too bad, not our problem, best of luck though"?
It states on your website that "More importantly WORKS offers an industry leading Factory-Matched Warranty". If this was a stock turbo on a stock car, any dealership would replace it under warranty. WORKS prices are generally higher than your competitors (even for items you don't make yourself), and I've been okay with that thinking that is the cost of piece of mind. Was I wrong?
You sold and installed this turbo to me - and installed it badly I might add. One of the bolts from turbo to exhaust manifold was cross threaded so badly it took almost 7 hours to drill it out and cut new threads in the flange. You also didn't use the Evo 8 specific install kit for Evo 9 turbos, and as a result the compressor outlet pipe shorted against my starter, and destroyed my battery, which I replaced out of pocket without saying a word.
I'm a pretty vocal advocate of WORKS product both locally and on EvoM, but I'm starting to regret this. I've called FP and they have a 3 weeks waiting list due to being swamped with orders for FP Greens. The least you could do is contact them on my behalf so I can jump the queue; but I had seriously expected you to live up to your promise of a factory matched warranty on a product you sold & installed. Not so happy ...
Ralph
thanks for getting back to me. I have to admit though that I'm disappointed. It took 3 emails, 2 phone calls, and almost 3 weeks for somebody at WORKS to finally give me a reply, and all I get is a polite "too bad, not our problem, best of luck though"?
It states on your website that "More importantly WORKS offers an industry leading Factory-Matched Warranty". If this was a stock turbo on a stock car, any dealership would replace it under warranty. WORKS prices are generally higher than your competitors (even for items you don't make yourself), and I've been okay with that thinking that is the cost of piece of mind. Was I wrong?
You sold and installed this turbo to me - and installed it badly I might add. One of the bolts from turbo to exhaust manifold was cross threaded so badly it took almost 7 hours to drill it out and cut new threads in the flange. You also didn't use the Evo 8 specific install kit for Evo 9 turbos, and as a result the compressor outlet pipe shorted against my starter, and destroyed my battery, which I replaced out of pocket without saying a word.
I'm a pretty vocal advocate of WORKS product both locally and on EvoM, but I'm starting to regret this. I've called FP and they have a 3 weeks waiting list due to being swamped with orders for FP Greens. The least you could do is contact them on my behalf so I can jump the queue; but I had seriously expected you to live up to your promise of a factory matched warranty on a product you sold & installed. Not so happy ...
Ralph
another 4 day wait and ....
Originally Posted by March 22
Ralph,
I understand your frustration. We're working on a solution for you. We've been totally slammed with MMNA and working out technical challenges with the SPEED World Challenge car. I'll be in contact again shortly.
Pete Kang
WORKS
I understand your frustration. We're working on a solution for you. We've been totally slammed with MMNA and working out technical challenges with the SPEED World Challenge car. I'll be in contact again shortly.
Pete Kang
WORKS
Originally Posted by March 26
Hi Ralph,
Originally it was suggested here that you send the turbo to us to have us send it in for you. But in the interest of time, it made more sense for you to send it to FP directly to avoid the you-to-us and the us back-to-you. This was without knowledge of their 3 week delay. We can try to help you in the queue but FP still owes us product that we ordered at the beginning of January.
We were not aware of any issues with the installation and we will certainly make good on it. I will note your account to give you credit for your old battery. Let us know what kind of battery it was (OEM, Braille, etc.).
I wish we had installed a WORKS turbo (with a factory-matched warranty) as we were designing a similar product as FP in the White Rabbit days. But we finally realized that we could not accomplish the engineering tolerances and consistency we were comfortable with to match that of Honeywell or Borg Warner- which would have allowed us to offer our OEM style warranty.
Please let us know if you would like us to send the turbo in on your behalf. Also, there might be the option of upgrading your turbo to a Green which we could offer at our cost which should be a bit cheaper than going direct.
Thanks,
Pete
WORKS
Originally it was suggested here that you send the turbo to us to have us send it in for you. But in the interest of time, it made more sense for you to send it to FP directly to avoid the you-to-us and the us back-to-you. This was without knowledge of their 3 week delay. We can try to help you in the queue but FP still owes us product that we ordered at the beginning of January.
We were not aware of any issues with the installation and we will certainly make good on it. I will note your account to give you credit for your old battery. Let us know what kind of battery it was (OEM, Braille, etc.).
I wish we had installed a WORKS turbo (with a factory-matched warranty) as we were designing a similar product as FP in the White Rabbit days. But we finally realized that we could not accomplish the engineering tolerances and consistency we were comfortable with to match that of Honeywell or Borg Warner- which would have allowed us to offer our OEM style warranty.
Please let us know if you would like us to send the turbo in on your behalf. Also, there might be the option of upgrading your turbo to a Green which we could offer at our cost which should be a bit cheaper than going direct.
Thanks,
Pete
WORKS
Originally Posted by March 26
Hi Pete,
thanks for getting back to me. It's nice of you to offer credit for the battery, but that's peanuts compared to the cost of the turbo. So if you are acknowledging the battery short was due to an installation problem, does that mean you are covering the turbo too? Both failures were due to the compressor outlet pipe knocking against the starter, since WORKS didn't use the "Evo9 turbo on Evo8" install kit.
Aside from the cost, my biggest headache is the turn-around time, since the Evo is my only car. It still drives (it holds about 10 psi), so is there a way to work this with some kind of core exchange (either for another WR9 or a Green)? That way my only downtime would be the time to do the actual swap.
I have no problem paying for the labor of getting the turbo swapped at a local shop and the Evo8 specific install kit (FP has it for about $130), as long as we can come to an agreement on the turbo itself?
Ralph
thanks for getting back to me. It's nice of you to offer credit for the battery, but that's peanuts compared to the cost of the turbo. So if you are acknowledging the battery short was due to an installation problem, does that mean you are covering the turbo too? Both failures were due to the compressor outlet pipe knocking against the starter, since WORKS didn't use the "Evo9 turbo on Evo8" install kit.
Aside from the cost, my biggest headache is the turn-around time, since the Evo is my only car. It still drives (it holds about 10 psi), so is there a way to work this with some kind of core exchange (either for another WR9 or a Green)? That way my only downtime would be the time to do the actual swap.
I have no problem paying for the labor of getting the turbo swapped at a local shop and the Evo8 specific install kit (FP has it for about $130), as long as we can come to an agreement on the turbo itself?
Ralph
Id say you have a legit gripe. You dropped your car off for install. Did you know before hand that the IX Jpipe needed to be used? Did they?
Your lucky you car didnt catch on fire man.
The only quick solution I see puts you out a Turbo though
Your lucky you car didnt catch on fire man.
The only quick solution I see puts you out a Turbo though
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From: NW Arkansas -- Land O' Twisties
I think that we've all purchased enough WORKS products for 1 out of 100 of us to get an exchange when a product fails. Their customer service has been slack as of late, but they've still got the heart of a good company --- I think that once they get the sales office fully staffed, you'll get a favorable response.
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From: wexford,pa
thats a very easy small claims court win.
no company can call manufactuer defect when an improper install was done against manufactueres instructions.
for instance, you can't install a high performance tire thats clearly marked to rotate in only 1 direction in the other direction then say well it wasn't the installation fault it was a manufactuer defect.
no company can call manufactuer defect when an improper install was done against manufactueres instructions.
for instance, you can't install a high performance tire thats clearly marked to rotate in only 1 direction in the other direction then say well it wasn't the installation fault it was a manufactuer defect.
In Sept. 2006 WORKS installed a Forced Performance White Rabbit 9 turbo in my car, without using the "Evo9 turbo on Evo8" specific install kit. As a result, the compressor outlet pipe has no clearance from the starter motor, and the constant knocking eventually caused the turbo's internal seals to fail.
1.) The fact that it was running without any problems reported to them for a year and a half is basis enough for them to tell you to go screw.
2.) How can you prove "the constant knocking eventually caused the turbo's internal seals to fail"... that doesn't sound like something that's cut-and-dry or obviously the cause of your failure... it sounds like a best guess explanation (or even a "likely" explanation, but certainly not a concrete one)
I'm sorry you blew the seals and got a relatively short life out of your turbo, but in my honest opinion, if I sold someone something and a year and a half later they gave me a so-so explanation as to why it all of a sudden broke, I wouldn't feel the least bit sorry about telling them "oh well, not my problem"
thats a very easy small claims court win.
no company can call manufacturer defect when an improper install was done against manufactures instructions.
for instance, you can't install a high performance tire thats clearly marked to rotate in only 1 direction in the other direction then say well it wasn't the installation fault it was a manufacturer defect.
no company can call manufacturer defect when an improper install was done against manufactures instructions.
for instance, you can't install a high performance tire thats clearly marked to rotate in only 1 direction in the other direction then say well it wasn't the installation fault it was a manufacturer defect.
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I can't see how the outlet pipe being close to starter blew internal seals on the turbo... But i guess i'm not an expert.. I do think that there will be no warranty on this.
I can't see how the outlet pipe being close to starter blew internal seals on the turbo... But i guess i'm not an expert.. I do think that there will be no warranty on this.
Thanks for all the comments guys (both for and against) 
For those of you saying it's been a long time, you are right about that. I did notice a problem with the install as soon as I came home from WORKS (driving back from San Francisco to Seattle), because I changed the exhaust manifold and ran into a couple of problems (shorted battery, seized bolts, warped flange) which IMO were all due to the outlet pipe knocking against the starter.
Unfortunately, I didn't know then what I know now, and so I thought buying a new battery and adding a split silicone coupler over the pipe to prevent another short would fix the problem. Because I think that was my fault (not complaining to WORKS right then), I offered to pay for the labor and the install kit if they would cover the turbo rebuild, which I thought was fair?
FYI:
labor (turbo in/out) ~$200
install kit (Evo9->8) $130
turbo rebuild $600+ (depending on damage)
For those of you saying it's been a long time, you are right about that. I did notice a problem with the install as soon as I came home from WORKS (driving back from San Francisco to Seattle), because I changed the exhaust manifold and ran into a couple of problems (shorted battery, seized bolts, warped flange) which IMO were all due to the outlet pipe knocking against the starter.
Unfortunately, I didn't know then what I know now, and so I thought buying a new battery and adding a split silicone coupler over the pipe to prevent another short would fix the problem. Because I think that was my fault (not complaining to WORKS right then), I offered to pay for the labor and the install kit if they would cover the turbo rebuild, which I thought was fair?
FYI:
labor (turbo in/out) ~$200
install kit (Evo9->8) $130
turbo rebuild $600+ (depending on damage)
In Sept. 2006 WORKS installed a Forced Performance White Rabbit 9 turbo in my car, without using the "Evo9 turbo on Evo8" specific install kit. As a result, the compressor outlet pipe has no clearance from the starter motor, and the constant knocking eventually caused the turbo's internal seals to fail.
The only problem i can see that would be caused by 8 outlet pipe on a 9 turbo is the pipe would be touching and rubbing against the live starter wire connector.
A member on this forum had a fire that fried his harness because of that. In that case you'd have a leg to stand on.
But again, i don't see how that would affect your turbo seals in any way...
Also "knocking" you speak of... turbo pipe/engine/starter/ are all one rigid unit. It moves together, one part can't "knock" against another.
A member on this forum had a fire that fried his harness because of that. In that case you'd have a leg to stand on.
But again, i don't see how that would affect your turbo seals in any way...
Also "knocking" you speak of... turbo pipe/engine/starter/ are all one rigid unit. It moves together, one part can't "knock" against another.
Last edited by mplspilot; Apr 4, 2008 at 12:21 PM.
Don't take this as bragging (that's not my thing), but I have 3 advanced engineering degrees and design & test rocket engines for a living (which do use turbo pumps as well), so I'm pretty experienced when it comes to diagnosing failures like this (which happens a lot in our engine test work). It took me a while to put all the pieces of data together, but I'm confident I did get it right Here's a simple sketch of what was going on:
The forced movement of the compressor housing via the leverage of the outlet pipe strained the shaft seals, and that's why they failed prematurely.