An Inconvenient Truth… About JDM - aka "The Death of Innovation"
Nov 22, 2008, 11:24 PM
#166
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Patents aren't as easy and straight forward as many people think. It is a long process and then when awarded a patent another company can still steal your product design. This "other" company only has to change/alter their design by in some instances 20-30%. Things such as finish, bolt sizes add up to this slight change but not a total design change. And then there you have it stolen design with a different finish and different bolts.....not as easy as you would think to patent products....
Yes; Innovation is key. However; other countries don't live under the freedoms that we here in the USA. This freedom breeds/incourages forward thinking and innovative thought. When you have to worry about feeding your children you're not too inclined to be thinking of ways to come up with Innovative designs. These oppressive countries that are today reaping the benefits of our redistribution of wealth abroad. While this is good for the average/poor Chinese, it is enabling the oppressive Chinese communist government to stay in power and consolidate their power base. If you can't beat your enemy through warfare then beat them through trade warfare. We are destroying our (USA) ability to manufacture. Will we become a totally white collar society..?.. I think not..we are in essence shipping our blue collar jobs over to china...build the chinese up whilst tearing our industrial base down...
Yes; Innovation is key. However; other countries don't live under the freedoms that we here in the USA. This freedom breeds/incourages forward thinking and innovative thought. When you have to worry about feeding your children you're not too inclined to be thinking of ways to come up with Innovative designs. These oppressive countries that are today reaping the benefits of our redistribution of wealth abroad. While this is good for the average/poor Chinese, it is enabling the oppressive Chinese communist government to stay in power and consolidate their power base. If you can't beat your enemy through warfare then beat them through trade warfare. We are destroying our (USA) ability to manufacture. Will we become a totally white collar society..?.. I think not..we are in essence shipping our blue collar jobs over to china...build the chinese up whilst tearing our industrial base down...
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Nov 23, 2008, 03:08 PM
#168
After reading all 12 pages I have to throw my 2 cents into the ring.
I might not be the oldest guy on here or been in the "spocom" scene for as long as some, but I've seen a lot of things change ever since the days of my very first Honda up to the point I'm at now with my Evo 8. I started out back in the late 90's with my single cam Honda wanting to make it as fast as I could on my budget, just as everyone else did. At the time there were no fancy name brand turbo kits, no chinese knock-off junk, heck even ebay wasn't really up and going. I did what I had to do in order to make my car faster, which meant fabricating alot of my own parts and using a lot of junkyard pieces too. And even though I don't agree with alot of the things that I see and read from the Buschur camp, I have to give them respect just for the simple fact that they started out in the same situation. I had to make everything...the manifolds, downpipes, charge piping...the only things I didn't make were the 14b/t25/t3's and various other turbo's that I ran, or such things like the old-school audi external wastegates. And for the people that weren't able to fabricate their own setups, that's what the local performance shops were for, and they flourished. After a while a few shops saw the need for manifolds/IC's/piping kits in the Honda market, and voila...next thing you know now there are chinese companies copying the originals while the every day shops took the hit and eventually went under. Companies like Drag, Full Race, etc. have bore the brunt and the sad part is that it's not the chinese who are contracting the copies to be made, but American business people who are having the chinese make the copies because it's just plain cheaper than designing your own thing.
As for the JDM aspect, JDM tuning parts never really were a hot item in the states until the last few years. Sure, JDM cars and nose clips and motors/tranny's have been a big item for a long time just for the appeal of how much different and cleaner the look is, or the form and function of an OEM factory part compared to it's US counterpart.
Some of you are complaining about how JDM parts are the greatest, yet how many of you will actually use these parts for what they were originally intended for? I personally think that if you are putting your car through it's paces on the track then yeah, you'll be better off springing for the good stuff instead of the cheap knock-off's, but for every JDM performance oriented part there is at least one USDM part that performs just as well and at a much more reasonable cost. You want to complain about how bad the economy is and that you can't afford the real deal? How about supporting the American made products out there and stop sending all the money to foreign countries...who knows, it might actually make a bit of difference if everyone went this route.
And as for JDM companies being spotless in the knock-off world, if you really wanted to get technical most Japanese car manufacturers copied the design for variable valve or cam timing (such as Mivec or Vtec or VVTi) from the original innovator...Lotus, which pioneered this technology in the 1950's believe it or not. So who's copying now? They copied our cars, they copied our production lines, they copied our manufacturing processes, I say it's about time they had their turn. Before you know it China will be manufacturing their own line of products that they alone created, and some other company in another country will be copying it too. Survival of the fittest, either you find a way to survive or you make a better and more innovative product. I'm sick of paying for the names these days, I'd take a set of Rota's over Volks or Rays simply because they aren't feasible for where I live. And for the one's that turn their noses up at the guys running Rota's or Megan coil-overs instead of the "real-deal" and doing it just as fast as you, I say you can **** off and you're the idiots for spending that much money on a "status symbol".
Oh, and I'm not one of those homo Evo owners that only drives his car on sunny days on the weekends when there's no chance of rain, I drive my car hard every day 24/7 in the wind/rain/snow/mud.
I might not be the oldest guy on here or been in the "spocom" scene for as long as some, but I've seen a lot of things change ever since the days of my very first Honda up to the point I'm at now with my Evo 8. I started out back in the late 90's with my single cam Honda wanting to make it as fast as I could on my budget, just as everyone else did. At the time there were no fancy name brand turbo kits, no chinese knock-off junk, heck even ebay wasn't really up and going. I did what I had to do in order to make my car faster, which meant fabricating alot of my own parts and using a lot of junkyard pieces too. And even though I don't agree with alot of the things that I see and read from the Buschur camp, I have to give them respect just for the simple fact that they started out in the same situation. I had to make everything...the manifolds, downpipes, charge piping...the only things I didn't make were the 14b/t25/t3's and various other turbo's that I ran, or such things like the old-school audi external wastegates. And for the people that weren't able to fabricate their own setups, that's what the local performance shops were for, and they flourished. After a while a few shops saw the need for manifolds/IC's/piping kits in the Honda market, and voila...next thing you know now there are chinese companies copying the originals while the every day shops took the hit and eventually went under. Companies like Drag, Full Race, etc. have bore the brunt and the sad part is that it's not the chinese who are contracting the copies to be made, but American business people who are having the chinese make the copies because it's just plain cheaper than designing your own thing.
As for the JDM aspect, JDM tuning parts never really were a hot item in the states until the last few years. Sure, JDM cars and nose clips and motors/tranny's have been a big item for a long time just for the appeal of how much different and cleaner the look is, or the form and function of an OEM factory part compared to it's US counterpart.
Some of you are complaining about how JDM parts are the greatest, yet how many of you will actually use these parts for what they were originally intended for? I personally think that if you are putting your car through it's paces on the track then yeah, you'll be better off springing for the good stuff instead of the cheap knock-off's, but for every JDM performance oriented part there is at least one USDM part that performs just as well and at a much more reasonable cost. You want to complain about how bad the economy is and that you can't afford the real deal? How about supporting the American made products out there and stop sending all the money to foreign countries...who knows, it might actually make a bit of difference if everyone went this route.
And as for JDM companies being spotless in the knock-off world, if you really wanted to get technical most Japanese car manufacturers copied the design for variable valve or cam timing (such as Mivec or Vtec or VVTi) from the original innovator...Lotus, which pioneered this technology in the 1950's believe it or not. So who's copying now? They copied our cars, they copied our production lines, they copied our manufacturing processes, I say it's about time they had their turn. Before you know it China will be manufacturing their own line of products that they alone created, and some other company in another country will be copying it too. Survival of the fittest, either you find a way to survive or you make a better and more innovative product. I'm sick of paying for the names these days, I'd take a set of Rota's over Volks or Rays simply because they aren't feasible for where I live. And for the one's that turn their noses up at the guys running Rota's or Megan coil-overs instead of the "real-deal" and doing it just as fast as you, I say you can **** off and you're the idiots for spending that much money on a "status symbol".
Oh, and I'm not one of those homo Evo owners that only drives his car on sunny days on the weekends when there's no chance of rain, I drive my car hard every day 24/7 in the wind/rain/snow/mud.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:02 PM
#169
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Boo hoo. If people don't have enough money to buy something they will not buy it. I'm glad there are knock offs for those who cannot afford it. I think Rexspeed is a great company. I think quality speaks for itself when you compare knock offs to the real thing anyways.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:04 PM
#170
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i hate the people that buy knocks-off's then promote them as the real thing....
EXAMPLE:
Timmy: Yes! I finally bought a seibon carbon fiber hood.
Cindy: OH MY GOD Timmy that's so nice. What is it?
Timmy: This is the awesome new amazing Voltex carbon fiber hood.
EXAMPLE:
Timmy: Yes! I finally bought a seibon carbon fiber hood.
Cindy: OH MY GOD Timmy that's so nice. What is it?
Timmy: This is the awesome new amazing Voltex carbon fiber hood.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:25 PM
#172
Yeah, it's called familiarize yourself completely with the original before you buy it, that way you can spot the fakes. People don't want to take the time to put in the homework anymore, so if a person gets ripped off on a knock-off thinking it was the real deal then I guess it's their own fault and stupidity.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:31 PM
#173
In response to the original post, I'd like to offer a different view.
Seibon offered a competitive product (proven by sales) and sold at at a lower price, through multiple distributors who didn't initially do the brand harm (see Jondemand) They underpriced and outsold the competition.
That's innovation.
Seibon offered a competitive product (proven by sales) and sold at at a lower price, through multiple distributors who didn't initially do the brand harm (see Jondemand) They underpriced and outsold the competition.
That's innovation.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:52 PM
#174
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In response to the original post, I'd like to offer a different view.
Seibon offered a competitive product (proven by sales) and sold at at a lower price, through multiple distributors who didn't initially do the brand harm (see Jondemand) They underpriced and outsold the competition.
That's innovation.
Seibon offered a competitive product (proven by sales) and sold at at a lower price, through multiple distributors who didn't initially do the brand harm (see Jondemand) They underpriced and outsold the competition.
That's innovation.
Nov 23, 2008, 04:53 PM
#175
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to whoever brought up the pharmaceutical issue, big props.
when you walk into a pharmacy with your prescription for hydrocodone (vicodin, norco, lortab, etc) the first thing the tech will ask you is if you want generic or name brand. with health insurance or not, e v e r y o n e will always say generic if they are educated enough to know they are the same thing. now why arent you buying name brand to support the big name brand who put in all the "R&D" into delivering that product to the masses?
its a different industry, obviously not as tight as the JDM tuning community, but it still relevant.
why? because everyone is on a budget!
I had an EBAY TBE on my car for one month... i hated looking at it knowing i cut corners and was being cheap. The product performed but it still bothered me. I ended up organizing finances and ended up buying an economical jdm setup and couldnt have been happier.
Its really all preference, and the reason why there is so many knockoffs is because people organize their finances differently and people will continue to be cheap.
I don't mind spending $200 on a pair of desinger jeans. If i like how they fit, the styling, the wash, and gaspp.... even the logo on the back pocket, i can justify spending the money. Just like people can justify spending more for Voltex.
everyone is different.
when you walk into a pharmacy with your prescription for hydrocodone (vicodin, norco, lortab, etc) the first thing the tech will ask you is if you want generic or name brand. with health insurance or not, e v e r y o n e will always say generic if they are educated enough to know they are the same thing. now why arent you buying name brand to support the big name brand who put in all the "R&D" into delivering that product to the masses?
its a different industry, obviously not as tight as the JDM tuning community, but it still relevant.
why? because everyone is on a budget!
I had an EBAY TBE on my car for one month... i hated looking at it knowing i cut corners and was being cheap. The product performed but it still bothered me. I ended up organizing finances and ended up buying an economical jdm setup and couldnt have been happier.
Its really all preference, and the reason why there is so many knockoffs is because people organize their finances differently and people will continue to be cheap.
I don't mind spending $200 on a pair of desinger jeans. If i like how they fit, the styling, the wash, and gaspp.... even the logo on the back pocket, i can justify spending the money. Just like people can justify spending more for Voltex.
everyone is different.
Nov 23, 2008, 05:13 PM
#176
To promote that the design cost them a lot of money is preposterous. Seibon had to make moulds the same way that Voltex did to recreate the hood. The wind tunnel testing is a farce. The voltex hood is all style. Function is the factory hood, light, stiff and aerodynamic.
Nov 23, 2008, 06:36 PM
#178
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So you don't think the Voltex brand is wind tunnel tested? Take a look at their website.....
----->http://www.voltex.ne.jp/index.html
Sorry but the analogy about generic drugs is not a good one. The original drug company that produced these drugs have a patent/copyright for around 8 years, and then after that they sell the rights to produce these generics to other companies. That would be different if these knockoff companies would buy the rights to produce these designs...no problems with that...at all..
----->http://www.voltex.ne.jp/index.html
Sorry but the analogy about generic drugs is not a good one. The original drug company that produced these drugs have a patent/copyright for around 8 years, and then after that they sell the rights to produce these generics to other companies. That would be different if these knockoff companies would buy the rights to produce these designs...no problems with that...at all..
Last edited by Q@EvoPowerMods; Nov 23, 2008 at 06:51 PM.
