You have the car in, say, 4th gear, and you're slowing and you want to downshift.
Clutch in, shifter from 4th to 3rd, rev the engine, clutch out.

The part where you rev the engine is where my question lies.
On the Evo it seemed that while the clutch was in and the shifter in gear, the engine would not rev up like one would expect it to in neutral.

In every other car I can think of the engine would rev readily and freely. In the Evo I test drove, I had to hold my foot down on the accelerator for a bit to get it to rev so I could actually pull off a rev-matched downshift.

What is up with that? First, is that normal for ANY car? Is it normal for the Evo for some reason?

I've never had that happen before although it's rare that I drive a manual trans car. I'm positive in other manual cars I've driven, the accelerator revs the engine more freely when the clutch is in and it's easier to rev-match a downshift.

This Evo you had to really hold the gas down quite a bit to get it to rev the engine while clutch was disengaged. Perhaps there was something wrong with the clutch pedal and it wasn't actually disengaging the clutch entirely even when it was to the floor?

 

i have no problems rev-matching in mine

Maybe there's something wrong with the one you drove

 

Was your CLS auto or 6speed?
I think what's happening is that you're used to softer controls like Honda has them (or VW etc)...
On the Evo you really have to push those pedals which I find a good thing when going nuts around the bends etc.
On my Accord if I want to heal-toe it usually ends up me kissing the windshield because the brake pedal is way too soft.

Are you finally buying the car?

 

another of those downshift when slowing down stories! why are you downshifting? are you climbing an incline that you have to downshift? you have the brakes if you want to slow down then downshift at the apex if you're turning fast at a bend. but if this is just for a test drive, that's one sure way of breaking the engine to pieces

 

Dude what are you talking about?

 

WTF are you saying? What does down shifting have to do with breaking the engine?
And why would you ever down shift in the middle of a turn? When turning, slow down appoaching the turn and accelerate out of it. If you down shifted in the middle you will loose a lot of momentum.

 

why is he downshifting ? accelerating out of the turn is close to apex, then again you have the brakes to slow down not downshifting! my impression is he said test drove the evo, meaning it is not his, so why do this before buying it? if you want to a lot of downshifting, buy evo then drive it like crazy!

 

It's called "heel-and-toe." It sounds kinda silly when you ridicule one of the staples of high performance driving.

Interesting theory

Emre

 

Maybe I didn't explain the situation properly, but I was slowing down from coasting and a little bit of braking (car in front of me, coming up to a turn) and in 4th gear. I wanted to be ready to accelerate around the next corner and the revs were low, so I was downshifting into third to prepare for that. I thought that's what you're supposed to do...

Yes, I'm no pro stick driver yet, but I don't understand why I couldn't get it to rev freely. Seemed like the clutch wasn't disengaged all the way, which is doubly-odd since the Evo's clutch engages so high on the pedal.

I'm trying to figure out if I did something wrong and that's why it didn't seem right or if maybe that car with 200 test drive miles of abuse on it maybe had something wrong with it.

Btw, I wasn't heel-toe-ing or any other advanced maneuver, I was simply trying to rev match a downshift to do it smoothly, but found the gas not eager to rev while the clutch pedal was depressed and the gear selector in 3rd. Am I supposed to rev while the stick is still in neutral-land between 4th and 3rd? I assumed that when the clutch pedal is to the floor it doesn't matter where the gear selector is, since the clutch is disengaged and the engine should rev freely when given gas.

 

When blipping the throttle on a heel-and-toe downshift, you should rev while the stick is in neutral. The idea is to bring the engine speed up to match the revs you want the engine to spin when you hit the lower gear.

There's not much point in blipping the throttle if you're already in the gear you want. Do it in the transition between gears. If you clutch in then shift right from 4th to 3rd without blipping to bring up the engine speed, you'll really hammer your synchros.

In other words: clutch in -> pull lever out of 4th into neutral -> blip the throttle to bring up the revs -> push lever into 3rd -> let out clutch.

If you do it right, it should feel completely seamless. Your passengers should feel the car slowing down smoothly from your braking, not engine braking. They should not feel any jerking/surging. You should hear the downshift, but not feel it.

Emre

 

Right, that's what I did although since I didn't feel blipping the gas bringing the rpms up like I was expecting, I ended up with the gear selector in 3rd but didn't let the clutch out and tried to rev again to get the revs up so I could release the clutch and have third engage smoothly (which it did after I gave it gas for a second and the revs slowly went up to where I needed them).

Hmm.... I dunno. =\

 

So buy a different car. How many times do you have to test drive it???? Buy the damn thing already.

 

What RPM were you at when you blipped the throttle?...

If your coming down hard from 4th to 3rd say around 5krpm or above, then you'll have to really crank the throttle when you heel-toe. Just like a race inspired car should be.

But if your just crusing to down shift from 4th to 3rd, like I would presume you were doing during your test drive, then the answer is NO. You should not have to really get on the gas hard at all. Just a quick blip on the gas pedal. But keep in mind that you do have to press down quite a bit, almost to the floor, but just a really quick blip and that should do it.

 

3K - I guess I just didn't pay enough attention and didn't do it all correctly that time.

Yeah the peer pressure is getting to me. Yet another person I know just bought an Evo!
I honestly would not buy one if it is my only car because it is noisy and raw. If I keep my current beater car as a "*****" car for the days I don't feel like shifting and want more quiet and mediocrity, I think I may go for it.
Nothing before the springtime though, when the weather clears up a little around here. Also waiting to get an 04 model of the car. I can't buy an 03 model at new car price when there are 05 models out! lol Plus by then all the details on the 05 STi will be out.

 

Yeah don't buy an 03 it's already too late in the year to buy a car that will not only have taken the initial hit that you get as soon as you drive off the lot, but it will have already depreciated a years worth, and would leave you upside down on the financing as compared with someone who bought earlier. I would wait for an 04 also. Good luck man. But don't wait too long.