What happened to the old Evom? Where the shops built cars to see who was the fastest?
Nov 18, 2011, 09:31 AM
#32
Meh... a number is a number. A dyno is a tuning tool. It operates much like an engine dyno which allows you to tune ALL the cells, not just the ones during the power sweep and then extrapolate ignition and fuel values from there. I was pretty stoked with Church's setup. He likes them soo much he has like 5 of them lol.
Good points Dave.
Where do you see the competition for the Evo coming in the future? Which form of racing? Or are you saying innovation is dead for a "dead" model.
Good points Dave.
Where do you see the competition for the Evo coming in the future? Which form of racing? Or are you saying innovation is dead for a "dead" model.
I think the EVO's will be just like the DSM's, more and more drag type cars built, maybe not 8's but 9's-10's. Get an automatic solution for the EVO's that works and I will change my opinion and say that there will be a TON of 8 second EVO's built and drag raced. Nobody likes constantly missing gears/changing clutches and such and it's a sad reality of driving a stick shift car. The autocross addition at the shootout has really boosted the interest in autocross for a lot of people. We went from I think 18 guys to 35 or so from one event to the next. Next year I see it growing even more. So my goal is to see more guys do more things with their cars. Not sure if you ever looked into it R/T but the Max Effort class at the DSM/EVO Shootout is what I'd like to see more of, all across the country. Guys who bring their cars in, as driven on the street, run an autocross and drag race, combine the ET's for the lowest ET to determine the winner, it's a blast and you get double the seat time for about the same money.
Nov 19, 2011, 09:31 AM
#34
^When your pushing 700-800whp you should start thinking more about time travel lol,
I hope that over time the platform will simply become more diverse. The evolution as well all know is a very capable car across many platforms.
It is good to see the senior shops covering new ground while the junior shops make names for themselves trying to break records or show case new cars.
I hope that over time the platform will simply become more diverse. The evolution as well all know is a very capable car across many platforms.
It is good to see the senior shops covering new ground while the junior shops make names for themselves trying to break records or show case new cars.
Nov 19, 2011, 11:01 AM
#36
it is just very unfortunate where we are right now in the automotive industry as a whole. granted manufacturers are always raising the bar with new technology but it seems like everything is a trade off now. I dont understand how new cars coming out now are going backwards in terms of quality and mechanics/performance in favor for mpg and cost cutting. What would you rather have, a nice comfortable interior with quality fabric and parts, with a cheap CVT or 4 cyl that produces 100hp gets 30 mpg and is 0-60 in the 8-9 sec range. or an econobox" with a good drive train, a reliable engine that puts out decent power and performance. You really dont get both anymore unless you are looking at something with a huge sticker price. Sure your bmw m division cars and AMGs will always have top of the line everything in terms of performance, technology, convenience, reliability, ect. but look at what your paying. If the evo had a 60-80k dollar sticker price, we can only assume that the word "econobox" would have never been in the same sentance as "evolution." Would it have made it a better car? most likely. does it change how us enthusiast look at it? it shouldnt. Will we look at evos any differently in 10 years? I dont think so. They will still be the best bang for your buck and hopefully a half decent examply will drop in price for the young newcomer and a well maintained with low miles will be worth more for seasoned owners. With gas the way it is and all the destruction and tragedies going on in Japan right now, as well as the american economy on a slippery slope. We may become a dying breed, only to be replaced by hybrid owners upgrading their electric motors and making them lighter and putting out 400 hp and still getting 40mpg lol. Who knows what will happen. Look at HKS, i would have never thought a company that established and reputable could shut down, luckily they were somewhat revived and still in business but look how close we almost lost hks in america. I can only pray that shops stay open and the enthusiast who likes spirited driving and upgrading parts to hardly be considered "unnecessary." From the dime a dozen mustang and civic owners that are on a never ending quest to buy the flashiest horse emblem or the lamest lambo doors they can find, to the people that are on a pt cruiser forum right now posting how much they think their car is the best car in the world, to us, the guys who look at driving as not just commuting from a-b, but as a hobby, as a sport, as an enthusiast. And that will trickle down to the kids who are building model cars in hopes of owning the real thing and putting up posters of 240sx's drifting around a corner. We are a larger community than you think. and there are power in numbers. lets never forget that.
Nov 19, 2011, 11:04 AM
#37
it is just very unfortunate where we are right now in the automotive industry as a whole. granted manufacturers are always raising the bar with new technology but it seems like everything is a trade off now. I dont understand how new cars coming out now are going backwards in terms of quality and mechanics/performance in favor for mpg and cost cutting. What would you rather have, a nice comfortable interior with quality fabric and parts, with a cheap CVT or 4 cyl that produces 100hp gets 30 mpg and is 0-60 in the 8-9 sec range. or an econobox" with a good drive train, a reliable engine that puts out decent power and performance. You really dont get both anymore unless you are looking at something with a huge sticker price. Sure your bmw m division cars and AMGs will always have top of the line everything in terms of performance, technology, convenience, reliability, ect. but look at what your paying. If the evo had a 60-80k dollar sticker price, we can only assume that the word "econobox" would have never been in the same sentance as "evolution." Would it have made it a better car? most likely. does it change how us enthusiast look at it? it shouldnt. Will we look at evos any differently in 10 years? I dont think so. They will still be the best bang for your buck and hopefully a half decent examply will drop in price for the young newcomer and a well maintained with low miles will be worth more for seasoned owners. With gas the way it is and all the destruction and tragedies going on in Japan right now, as well as the american economy on a slippery slope. We may become a dying breed, only to be replaced by hybrid owners upgrading their electric motors and making them lighter and putting out 400 hp and still getting 40mpg lol. Who knows what will happen. Look at HKS, i would have never thought a company that established and reputable could shut down, luckily they were somewhat revived and still in business but look how close we almost lost hks in america. I can only pray that shops stay open and the enthusiast who likes spirited driving and upgrading parts to hardly be considered "unnecessary." From the dime a dozen mustang and civic owners that are on a never ending quest to buy the flashiest horse emblem or the lamest lambo doors they can find, to the people that are on a pt cruiser forum right now posting how much they think their car is the best car in the world, to us, the guys who look at driving as not just commuting from a-b, but as a hobby, as a sport, as an enthusiast. And that will trickle down to the kids who are building model cars in hopes of owning the real thing and putting up posters of 240sx's drifting around a corner. We are a larger community than you think. and there are power in numbers. lets never forget that.
Nov 19, 2011, 01:58 PM
#39
The economy is a given, but the ct9a chassis hasn't been in production for 5 years now. The evo X isn't even closely related, most of the parts are totally different between the two. And mitsu is less and less committed to the evo and performance in general. So basically like what happened with the dsm world the price of a used evo is coming within reach of the cheap people that don't really have the passion or the money to buy quality parts. For example my friend owned his dsm for over 5 years and invested over 40k in building a badass street car, and then a few years ago he sold it for $17k to a halfwit 19 year old that doesn't even know how to keep it running properly. There will always be the diehards with the money but there are less of those around now (moved to other platforms, getting old, wife, kids, etc.), and naturally less people buying parts and investing in shops that build them. So how do you expect these shops to find the funding to support racing for these records? The ct9a evo scene has already peaked. Its downhill from here on. And shops have to move on.
Btw competing with the aussies is very tough to do. For a nation of only 16million they have some absolute diehard gearheads down there. With a huge market and industry for tuners. They can easily rival anything the US can offer even with their much smaller customer base supporting them.
Btw competing with the aussies is very tough to do. For a nation of only 16million they have some absolute diehard gearheads down there. With a huge market and industry for tuners. They can easily rival anything the US can offer even with their much smaller customer base supporting them.
Last edited by deeman101; Nov 19, 2011 at 02:02 PM.
Nov 19, 2011, 02:13 PM
#40
it is just very unfortunate where we are right now in the automotive industry as a whole. granted manufacturers are always raising the bar with new technology but it seems like everything is a trade off now. I dont understand how new cars coming out now are going backwards in terms of quality and mechanics/performance in favor for mpg and cost cutting.
What would you rather have, a nice comfortable interior with quality fabric and parts, with a cheap CVT or 4 cyl that produces 100hp gets 30 mpg and is 0-60 in the 8-9 sec range. or an econobox" with a good drive train, a reliable engine that puts out decent power and performance. You really dont get both anymore unless you are looking at something with a huge sticker price.
Sure your bmw m division cars and AMGs will always have top of the line everything in terms of performance, technology, convenience, reliability, ect. but look at what your paying. If the evo had a 60-80k dollar sticker price, we can only assume that the word "econobox" would have never been in the same sentance as "evolution." Would it have made it a better car? most likely. does it change how us enthusiast look at it? it shouldnt. Will we look at evos any differently in 10 years? I dont think so. They will still be the best bang for your buck and hopefully a half decent examply will drop in price for the young newcomer and a well maintained with low miles will be worth more for seasoned owners.
With gas the way it is and all the destruction and tragedies going on in Japan right now, as well as the american economy on a slippery slope. We may become a dying breed, only to be replaced by hybrid owners upgrading their electric motors and making them lighter and putting out 400 hp and still getting 40mpg lol. Who knows what will happen. Look at HKS, i would have never thought a company that established and reputable could shut down, luckily they were somewhat revived and still in business but look how close we almost lost hks in america. I can only pray that shops stay open and the enthusiast who likes spirited driving and upgrading parts to hardly be considered "unnecessary."
From the dime a dozen mustang and civic owners that are on a never ending quest to buy the flashiest horse emblem or the lamest lambo doors they can find, to the people that are on a pt cruiser forum right now posting how much they think their car is the best car in the world, to us, the guys who look at driving as not just commuting from a-b, but as a hobby, as a sport, as an enthusiast. And that will trickle down to the kids who are building model cars in hopes of owning the real thing and putting up posters of 240sx's drifting around a corner.
We are a larger community than you think. and there are power in numbers. lets never forget that.
What would you rather have, a nice comfortable interior with quality fabric and parts, with a cheap CVT or 4 cyl that produces 100hp gets 30 mpg and is 0-60 in the 8-9 sec range. or an econobox" with a good drive train, a reliable engine that puts out decent power and performance. You really dont get both anymore unless you are looking at something with a huge sticker price.
Sure your bmw m division cars and AMGs will always have top of the line everything in terms of performance, technology, convenience, reliability, ect. but look at what your paying. If the evo had a 60-80k dollar sticker price, we can only assume that the word "econobox" would have never been in the same sentance as "evolution." Would it have made it a better car? most likely. does it change how us enthusiast look at it? it shouldnt. Will we look at evos any differently in 10 years? I dont think so. They will still be the best bang for your buck and hopefully a half decent examply will drop in price for the young newcomer and a well maintained with low miles will be worth more for seasoned owners.
With gas the way it is and all the destruction and tragedies going on in Japan right now, as well as the american economy on a slippery slope. We may become a dying breed, only to be replaced by hybrid owners upgrading their electric motors and making them lighter and putting out 400 hp and still getting 40mpg lol. Who knows what will happen. Look at HKS, i would have never thought a company that established and reputable could shut down, luckily they were somewhat revived and still in business but look how close we almost lost hks in america. I can only pray that shops stay open and the enthusiast who likes spirited driving and upgrading parts to hardly be considered "unnecessary."
From the dime a dozen mustang and civic owners that are on a never ending quest to buy the flashiest horse emblem or the lamest lambo doors they can find, to the people that are on a pt cruiser forum right now posting how much they think their car is the best car in the world, to us, the guys who look at driving as not just commuting from a-b, but as a hobby, as a sport, as an enthusiast. And that will trickle down to the kids who are building model cars in hopes of owning the real thing and putting up posters of 240sx's drifting around a corner.
We are a larger community than you think. and there are power in numbers. lets never forget that.
Edit: One of the arguments above cites there always being folks interested in modifying their cars. That's true. To a point. To add to the notion from the standpoint of pop culture, we're seeing a similar kind of mass customizing (pardon the oxymoron) as we saw from the early-60s to the early-70. If you're a young adult and your car is stock, in some circles you just aren't cool. This brings people into the fold who normally would not be there. Witness the endless owners who are looking to install "mods." On an aggregate level, this phenomenon seems to be dying off, likely due to some of the reasons mentioned above."
Last edited by FJF; Nov 19, 2011 at 02:28 PM.
Nov 19, 2011, 03:16 PM
#41
6 yr. Fuel prices:
Miles MPG Gal/Year$/Gal Petrol$/Year
12,000 21 571 2.00 1,143
12,000 21 571 3.50 2,000
--> Consumer's out of pocket = ($857) /yr
Doesn't help (on demand side)
Miles MPG Gal/Year$/Gal Petrol$/Year
12,000 21 571 2.00 1,143
12,000 21 571 3.50 2,000
--> Consumer's out of pocket = ($857) /yr
Doesn't help (on demand side)
Last edited by Fast4AWD; Nov 19, 2011 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Price Chart
Nov 19, 2011, 07:14 PM
#42
I have a bigger gripe with shops that build a "purpose" car, but show no results from it. There are a few in the past few years that looks like a great build, with a lot of money, time, and effort. Yet, its never shown to perform at the level of its intent, and not because the car doesn't perform, but the shops doesn't allow it to. MY two cents.
Nov 20, 2011, 05:30 AM
#43
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I agree with you on being the fastest and the one real record for ET/MPH in a particular chassis body/driveline configuration. I think there are also "true records" like you call them as far as turbo choice. So, the quickest fastest Stock turbo/Green/Red/Black/HTA86 etc. I don't believe in breaking them down by fastest with "new car smell" though. haha
As for building another EVO to try and set a record that nobody cares about anymore, not happening here. We went down that road when more people were drag racing EVO's than at any other time. Getting an H pattern stock trans to shift at 10,000+ rpm is a PITA, paying $5,000 for a clutch that will last 20 passes in a car like that is just not reality. Spending $8,000 on a dogbox to help with the situation, also, not reality anymore.
There are other problems as far as a business outlook on it. Here are some:
#1. Customers don't care at this point about who is the quickest/fastest. It's a thing of the past and I'm glad we were in it when it was the hot thing.
#2. Having an 8 second EVO gets advertising attention BUT in reality there are no customers lining up at the door to get that same build done.
#3. The cost to build the car and run the car is EXTREMELY high and will never be offset by sales of the parts you used to set the record.
So, you have to do it because you love it. Building a car like that is filled with hundreds of hours of work that are offset by a few good passes that last just seconds. 8.37 seconds to set the world record, $75,000 to build the car, hundreds of hours of labor. Then there are the hundreds of passes that will be made to even run that 8.37 seconds and everyone of them that doesn't set the record, every missed shift, every clutch change, every oil change is just something in the way that pisses you off.............and at our shop that lead to fights, arguments and headaches that were not worth keeping after it, so we sold the car. I haven't missed our drag EVO one day since it's been gone, not one.
We are not building an EVO for drag racing. I do have the itch again and it can be credited to the automatics in the 1g and 2g's that have made the car consistent and reliable or at least that is how they seem to be.
I just bought a 1991 Eagle Talon AWD automatic. The plan is to do a budget build on the car for 2012. I think it's cool that we will have a DSM back in our stable for the 20th Annual DSM/EVO Shootout!
The other solution is definitely an auto trans in the EVO, like Lucas is working on. I tried to import the EVO7 GTA trans with no success back when we had the black drag EVO. I have a line on one now, finally and considered putting it in my RS. The fact is I love the RS how it is and I am enjoying doing these multi-skilled events more than I do just drag racing the car. Car show/autocross/drag race type events are a blast and I've done well in them, so putting an auto in the car is out of the question for me.
Something else as a note, the BadBish has sold more parts/builds because of the interest in the car than any other single car since my 1G DSM back in the day. People are interested in bad *** street cars not so much a gutted tin can drag car that can be used for one thing only.
I'm looking forward to this 1G DSM project and hoping it works out as planned. A nice consistent, fast project that we can go rounds with.
Myself, Jarrod, Kevin and Dean went to North Carolina last weekend to race the BadBish. The weekend was over filled with laughs, stories, drinking, good food, good friends and stories I will remember for a very long time. When I look back on myself, Kevin and Dean traveling all over this great country of ours 10 years ago with two cars in a stacker trailer nearly every weekend of the year do you know what I remember? I remember the good times, laughs, drinking, good food and good friends. I remember very few rounds of racing. Last weekend reminded me of the great times I have had and could still have and that is what put me over the edge to build this new car. I am not going for the fastest auto record, the fastest DSM record or any other record. I intend actually duplicate the BadBish's engine/head/turbo and drop it into this 1G DSM and hope it can run some 8.90's and do it 50 passes in a row without missing a shift, replacing a clutch or just being pissed off in general. In those 50 passes I intend to travel to 8 different tracks and hang out with my good friends and have some damn laughs, because those laughs are what I remember the most from all the racing I've done.
Records are meant to be broken my friends. You can chase that dream if you like, it's an expensive aggravating road to travel. I'll take a bit slower road from now on and just try to improve reliability and get some good memories to share with my grand kids later down the road.
As for building another EVO to try and set a record that nobody cares about anymore, not happening here. We went down that road when more people were drag racing EVO's than at any other time. Getting an H pattern stock trans to shift at 10,000+ rpm is a PITA, paying $5,000 for a clutch that will last 20 passes in a car like that is just not reality. Spending $8,000 on a dogbox to help with the situation, also, not reality anymore.
There are other problems as far as a business outlook on it. Here are some:
#1. Customers don't care at this point about who is the quickest/fastest. It's a thing of the past and I'm glad we were in it when it was the hot thing.
#2. Having an 8 second EVO gets advertising attention BUT in reality there are no customers lining up at the door to get that same build done.
#3. The cost to build the car and run the car is EXTREMELY high and will never be offset by sales of the parts you used to set the record.
So, you have to do it because you love it. Building a car like that is filled with hundreds of hours of work that are offset by a few good passes that last just seconds. 8.37 seconds to set the world record, $75,000 to build the car, hundreds of hours of labor. Then there are the hundreds of passes that will be made to even run that 8.37 seconds and everyone of them that doesn't set the record, every missed shift, every clutch change, every oil change is just something in the way that pisses you off.............and at our shop that lead to fights, arguments and headaches that were not worth keeping after it, so we sold the car. I haven't missed our drag EVO one day since it's been gone, not one.
We are not building an EVO for drag racing. I do have the itch again and it can be credited to the automatics in the 1g and 2g's that have made the car consistent and reliable or at least that is how they seem to be.
I just bought a 1991 Eagle Talon AWD automatic. The plan is to do a budget build on the car for 2012. I think it's cool that we will have a DSM back in our stable for the 20th Annual DSM/EVO Shootout!
The other solution is definitely an auto trans in the EVO, like Lucas is working on. I tried to import the EVO7 GTA trans with no success back when we had the black drag EVO. I have a line on one now, finally and considered putting it in my RS. The fact is I love the RS how it is and I am enjoying doing these multi-skilled events more than I do just drag racing the car. Car show/autocross/drag race type events are a blast and I've done well in them, so putting an auto in the car is out of the question for me.
Something else as a note, the BadBish has sold more parts/builds because of the interest in the car than any other single car since my 1G DSM back in the day. People are interested in bad *** street cars not so much a gutted tin can drag car that can be used for one thing only.
I'm looking forward to this 1G DSM project and hoping it works out as planned. A nice consistent, fast project that we can go rounds with.
Myself, Jarrod, Kevin and Dean went to North Carolina last weekend to race the BadBish. The weekend was over filled with laughs, stories, drinking, good food, good friends and stories I will remember for a very long time. When I look back on myself, Kevin and Dean traveling all over this great country of ours 10 years ago with two cars in a stacker trailer nearly every weekend of the year do you know what I remember? I remember the good times, laughs, drinking, good food and good friends. I remember very few rounds of racing. Last weekend reminded me of the great times I have had and could still have and that is what put me over the edge to build this new car. I am not going for the fastest auto record, the fastest DSM record or any other record. I intend actually duplicate the BadBish's engine/head/turbo and drop it into this 1G DSM and hope it can run some 8.90's and do it 50 passes in a row without missing a shift, replacing a clutch or just being pissed off in general. In those 50 passes I intend to travel to 8 different tracks and hang out with my good friends and have some damn laughs, because those laughs are what I remember the most from all the racing I've done.
Records are meant to be broken my friends. You can chase that dream if you like, it's an expensive aggravating road to travel. I'll take a bit slower road from now on and just try to improve reliability and get some good memories to share with my grand kids later down the road.
^Plenty of truth here. Glad to hear that youre back in a 1G Dave, especially since its an auto which is the next big thing..., already is actually. I recently landed a sweet 92 AWD Auto. Thing is they are really hard to find.
I actually prefer cruising in my 1G over my Evo that I had.. without a doubt. The cars are way less refined and loose from old age but I still love the feel of being in a 1G.
The drag scene is still alive but will never be as exciting year round like when the DSM crowd went 11s, 10s, 9s... Or when the Evo came out and sparked a new craze. Gonna need a new platform to get the shops in parts production mode again.
Thats when they jockey for our business by showcasing the new go fast goodies in their shop car and being the quickest/fastest FIRST. Thats what fuels the competition and it snowballs into a drag/road racing fever. Thing is Mitsu isnt gonna be supplying that platform it seems...
The 20th DSM/Evo Shootout is gonna be the place to be
Nov 20, 2011, 06:19 AM
#44
I have a bigger gripe with shops that build a "purpose" car, but show no results from it. There are a few in the past few years that looks like a great build, with a lot of money, time, and effort. Yet, its never shown to perform at the level of its intent, and not because the car doesn't perform, but the shops doesn't allow it to. MY two cents.
Nov 20, 2011, 06:25 AM
#45
^Plenty of truth here. Glad to hear that youre back in a 1G Dave, especially since its an auto which is the next big thing..., already is actually. I recently landed a sweet 92 AWD Auto. Thing is they are really hard to find.
I actually prefer cruising in my 1G over my Evo that I had.. without a doubt. The cars are way less refined and loose from old age but I still love the feel of being in a 1G.
The drag scene is still alive but will never be as exciting year round like when the DSM crowd went 11s, 10s, 9s... Or when the Evo came out and sparked a new craze. Gonna need a new platform to get the shops in parts production mode again.
Thats when they jockey for our business by showcasing the new go fast goodies in their shop car and being the quickest/fastest FIRST. Thats what fuels the competition and it snowballs into a drag/road racing fever. Thing is Mitsu isnt gonna be supplying that platform it seems...
The 20th DSM/Evo Shootout is gonna be the place to be
I actually prefer cruising in my 1G over my Evo that I had.. without a doubt. The cars are way less refined and loose from old age but I still love the feel of being in a 1G.
The drag scene is still alive but will never be as exciting year round like when the DSM crowd went 11s, 10s, 9s... Or when the Evo came out and sparked a new craze. Gonna need a new platform to get the shops in parts production mode again.
Thats when they jockey for our business by showcasing the new go fast goodies in their shop car and being the quickest/fastest FIRST. Thats what fuels the competition and it snowballs into a drag/road racing fever. Thing is Mitsu isnt gonna be supplying that platform it seems...
The 20th DSM/Evo Shootout is gonna be the place to be
I honestly see the 20th Annual being a flat out bad *** event too. The Quick 16 has gotten a tighter/faster field each year and this year should be even more so.
I also see the EVO's ending up with autos in them and that should fuel quite a few fast drag cars.
I'm glad I'm in the position to do a drag type build again BUT keep my EVO an EVO and use it for drag and autocross in the Max Effort Class!