Clutch Job, Wont go into Gear. Help (Symptoms)
Dec 20, 2013, 10:35 PM
#1
Clutch Job, Wont go into Gear. Help (Symptoms)
I had a clutch installed on my evo 9 and replaced OEM with OEM Disc MN 132206, Pressure Plate, Release Bearing (sealed and from a reputable distributor) other than the ACT MonoLoc (I have already spoken with ACT about this).
It is experiencing an odd behavior in which it will not go into any gear with ease when stopped and the engine is on. If attempting to put it into first you will feel a thump.
( the vehicle has not been driven more than 19 miles (of which 17 is an empty toll road)
It will not engage at all into the lower gears (i.e. 2nd or 4th) The only way to get into first or reverse (other than force which I will not do) is to push the clutch pedal, put it into 5th with mild force, leave it there for 3 seconds
then row into third then into first (upper gears i.e.1st, 3rd, 5th). After doing this it is buttery smooth going into ALL gears till the clutch is released. Attempting to go into first or any of the other gears after releasing the pedal and NOT already in motion, is once again difficult
When the engine is off the clutch will row through all the gears with slight notchiness though no issue thus clutch, not transmission related. Transmission is fine
Things that have been checked
Fluid has been bled multiple times
Clutch Pedal has been adjusted
There is very little chance that it is a hydraulic issue as everything was working fine prior to the install (and works fine when the vehicle is in motion). The vehicle has less than 30k miles
Installation was verified through the inspection hole, though I would like to get thoughts and ideas.
Ideas that were presented are that the disc might be thicker than normal and might need to be worn in by using the process stated above and clutch break in 500 - 1000k miles city driving,( though I don't want to do this yet), clutch drag (though the pedal has been adjusted).
Best advice would be from anyone who has experienced this or seen this and knows exactly what it might be, though any suggestions will help as well.
It is experiencing an odd behavior in which it will not go into any gear with ease when stopped and the engine is on. If attempting to put it into first you will feel a thump.
( the vehicle has not been driven more than 19 miles (of which 17 is an empty toll road)
It will not engage at all into the lower gears (i.e. 2nd or 4th) The only way to get into first or reverse (other than force which I will not do) is to push the clutch pedal, put it into 5th with mild force, leave it there for 3 seconds
then row into third then into first (upper gears i.e.1st, 3rd, 5th). After doing this it is buttery smooth going into ALL gears till the clutch is released. Attempting to go into first or any of the other gears after releasing the pedal and NOT already in motion, is once again difficult
When the engine is off the clutch will row through all the gears with slight notchiness though no issue thus clutch, not transmission related. Transmission is fine
Things that have been checked
Fluid has been bled multiple times
Clutch Pedal has been adjusted
There is very little chance that it is a hydraulic issue as everything was working fine prior to the install (and works fine when the vehicle is in motion). The vehicle has less than 30k miles
Installation was verified through the inspection hole, though I would like to get thoughts and ideas.
Ideas that were presented are that the disc might be thicker than normal and might need to be worn in by using the process stated above and clutch break in 500 - 1000k miles city driving,( though I don't want to do this yet), clutch drag (though the pedal has been adjusted).
Best advice would be from anyone who has experienced this or seen this and knows exactly what it might be, though any suggestions will help as well.
Dec 20, 2013, 11:33 PM
#2
Just read a Miata forum that had somewhat similar symptoms and ended up being that one clutch spring that was bad. This was after replacing the slave and master which were fine.
Please keep any ideas coming
Please keep any ideas coming
Last edited by silverevo05; Dec 20, 2013 at 11:58 PM.
Dec 21, 2013, 09:27 AM
#3
Evolved Member
Whatever it is I doubt you are going to be able to fix it by looking through that hole in the bottom. And, wearing it in sounds ridiculous to me. It could be the flywheel got mounted with something behind it. There could be debris inside the pressure plate (happened to me once) or between the cover and the flywheel. it could be the throw out bearing isn't properly attached (you could try giving the arm a big yank). Other than the last, if you are sure the hydraulics are 100%, it is going to have to come apart.
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Dec 23, 2013, 09:47 AM
#9
^ I read that before and presented it to them. They stated they would contact Jacks to see if they know what the problem might be that I am experienceing
THis is what they were able to check at my home, after the clutch job was done, through the inspection hole:
The problem you are having with the car is the gears are hard to get into when the car is stationary. The clutch does not have any problems going into gear when the car is off or when the car is in motion. This was all after the brand new clutch was installed along with an ACT Monoloc.
We inspected the initial install of the clutch. Checked bolts all around the transmission and transfer-case, then went internal through the inspection holes to check the Monoloc Clip and release bearing, making sure it was sitting correctly and had the appropriate amount of springs in the clip. We also checked to make sure it was sitting properly and straight. We rotated the engine to ensure it was properly installed and clipped all 360 degrees. Everything was good.
We inspected the torque on the Pressure plate and we also checked the the contact between the pressure plate and the flywheel to ensure it was all flush and properly installed, it was again rotated to make sure it was good on all sides. It was all good.
We did a Clutch Pedal Adjustment to gain or lower the stroke on it and give the clutch more room to be able to release itself. It did nothing to relieve the pressure on the gears and the gears were still hard to get into when the car was stationary.
We Bled the clutch to make sure there was no air in the hydraulic system. There was no air and it was a clean stream of fluid.
After all these items were double checked and adjusted/bled, we have come to the conclusion that the clutch is experiencing clutch drag. The cause of this is within the clutch unit itself (Pressure Plate, Disk, Flywheel). The most common cause of this would be the disk itself. It could have a larger than normal thickness to it which would slightly drag on either the flywheel or the pressure plate making it difficult to shift into gears because the disk would still be moving. This is somewhat of a common issue when installing a brand new clutch kit.
THis is what they were able to check at my home, after the clutch job was done, through the inspection hole:
The problem you are having with the car is the gears are hard to get into when the car is stationary. The clutch does not have any problems going into gear when the car is off or when the car is in motion. This was all after the brand new clutch was installed along with an ACT Monoloc.
We inspected the initial install of the clutch. Checked bolts all around the transmission and transfer-case, then went internal through the inspection holes to check the Monoloc Clip and release bearing, making sure it was sitting correctly and had the appropriate amount of springs in the clip. We also checked to make sure it was sitting properly and straight. We rotated the engine to ensure it was properly installed and clipped all 360 degrees. Everything was good.
We inspected the torque on the Pressure plate and we also checked the the contact between the pressure plate and the flywheel to ensure it was all flush and properly installed, it was again rotated to make sure it was good on all sides. It was all good.
We did a Clutch Pedal Adjustment to gain or lower the stroke on it and give the clutch more room to be able to release itself. It did nothing to relieve the pressure on the gears and the gears were still hard to get into when the car was stationary.
We Bled the clutch to make sure there was no air in the hydraulic system. There was no air and it was a clean stream of fluid.
After all these items were double checked and adjusted/bled, we have come to the conclusion that the clutch is experiencing clutch drag. The cause of this is within the clutch unit itself (Pressure Plate, Disk, Flywheel). The most common cause of this would be the disk itself. It could have a larger than normal thickness to it which would slightly drag on either the flywheel or the pressure plate making it difficult to shift into gears because the disk would still be moving. This is somewhat of a common issue when installing a brand new clutch kit.
Dec 23, 2013, 03:10 PM
#10
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Clutch drag which is for sure what's happening can be caused by several thing one being the trans being supported by the input shaft on the friction disk during install bending or warping it.
Dec 23, 2013, 03:51 PM
#11
Clutch drag is more common with a twin disc, but can be an issue on singles with an improperly machined flywheel or a sloppy install. 1st thing I would do is try adjusting the peddle. There are several good write ups on here about it. Other than that, like everyone else is saying, take it back and make them fix it.
Dec 23, 2013, 07:30 PM
#12
I was just researching about this and in jacks website there is a lot of good information on how to fix it go to their web site and read the articles they will help you a lot. Keep us update it and good luck man hope everything is good and is nothing major.
Dec 23, 2013, 09:23 PM
#13
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Hey guy's,
We did the install on this particular car and there are multiple steps we take to ensure problems don't arise from installation. We have done hundreds of installs on all Evo models and have experienced many different issues with them. With everything that was done and checked and double checked and even gone as far as to drive to the customer's house to triple check, at this point it is our professional opinion that the disk and pressure plate combo along with the ACT Monoloc being used may have a higher tolerance than what is perfect for the car. The clutch fork arm sits slightly towards the Passenger side instead of center Reducing the overall stroked needed to fully disengage it which causes the clutch drag. The options we gave the customer would be to let the clutch break in and wear in, or to replace it with another clutch. The issue arises due to the fact that the customer brought in his own parts. We would have to charge all over again to install a different clutch. This is not the option the customer wants to go with there for we suggest he break it in and let it wear in to see if it reduces clutch drag over time.
-Mauricio
Owner / Massimo Power
We did the install on this particular car and there are multiple steps we take to ensure problems don't arise from installation. We have done hundreds of installs on all Evo models and have experienced many different issues with them. With everything that was done and checked and double checked and even gone as far as to drive to the customer's house to triple check, at this point it is our professional opinion that the disk and pressure plate combo along with the ACT Monoloc being used may have a higher tolerance than what is perfect for the car. The clutch fork arm sits slightly towards the Passenger side instead of center Reducing the overall stroked needed to fully disengage it which causes the clutch drag. The options we gave the customer would be to let the clutch break in and wear in, or to replace it with another clutch. The issue arises due to the fact that the customer brought in his own parts. We would have to charge all over again to install a different clutch. This is not the option the customer wants to go with there for we suggest he break it in and let it wear in to see if it reduces clutch drag over time.
-Mauricio
Owner / Massimo Power
