dsmchiz

So I had my id2000s cleaned and I put them back in and cold start idle was very lean. Like crazy lean 17-18 while warming up. Once warm the cars afrs are fine. During warm cruise afrs are fine. FPR line is re zip tied.

Car was running just fine before the injectors were cleaned.

Then the other day P2195 o2 inactive appeared. The front o2 has 5k on it.

Any thoughts?
Thanks all!

barneyb

I don't see anything unusual about the code if the car is spending a long period of time running lean. The computer expects closed loop soon after vehicle start.

dsmchiz

So would you assume that the sensor is the cause of the lean start, warm up, and then code?

barneyb

No. The sensor could be bad, maybe the heater isn't working causing it to be slow to start or maybe the sensor doesn't work at all. But until it starts working the engine is running off of a fuel map. On the other hand, if the engine is just plain lean then the sensor is telling the truth in not reacting. You need a scanner that can read long and short term fuel trims as well as showing what the sensor is doing. Also, have on screen whether the engine is in open or closed loop. Watch if the afr is fixed when the car goes closed loop.

BTW I think P2195 means sensor stuck lean beyond what the ECU can correct.

dsmchiz

Good advice thank you. I will do that and see.
If it is in closed loop and going very lean could that be the sensor? If it's in open loop while warm up is happening it's the tune?

Strange that all was fine for months and then I have the injectors cleaned, reset the battery and now idle is lean.

The code does actually say o2 inactive for the record

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Last set of injectors I cleaned, the car ran lean after. The poor spray pattern of the dirty injectors must have been causing poor atomization, and a rich condition. You likely just need to go back to your tuner, and have him play with fueling a bit to get everything dialed back in.

dsmchiz

Thats a great idea. Thank you!

10isace

iTrader: (12)

Hey bud! Found this thead when searching for P2195. LOL!

Did you reset your fuel trims? You may be maxed out on your idle fuel trims and it is causing a lean condition when you start up and the o2 hasn't kicked in yet. The LTFT will be active while the o2 sensor is warming up and not communicating with the ECU.

Also, make sure the o2 sensor wiring isn't laying on the exhaust mani. Have 2 cars here this month with the o2 sensor knocked out. I assume it's the burn marks on the o2 sensor wiring.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

No fuel trims are in use if the front O2 is inactive. That is called open loop. In that scenario the ECU calculates fueling based on entries in the ROM in the fuel table, injector scaling, and MAF scaling or speed density tuning, etc..

10isace

iTrader: (12)

Can you please prove that?

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

It's basic fuel injection operation. That's why it's called "open loop". The ECU is determining fueling without feedback from an O2 sensor. Not fuel trims are in use. It's basing fueling on coolant temp, and programmed values in the ROM..

I don't have to "prove" anything. But if I could post a log I would. But I have long term fuel trims disabled in my car. Makes it much easier to make quick fueing adjustments for altitude and major weather changes. Just have to glance at the short term feed back, and make the change. No waiting for long term trims to readjust.

10isace

iTrader: (12)

Here is the proof that the LTFT is being used when starting up while the front o2 is warming up. This is an VIII and a X. The IX's (like the OP's) do the same.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

My car never did that, even with fuel trims on, neither have a few other cars I've touched. Open loop is open loop, car shouldn't be using fuel trims. I don't have those old logs anymore though. Could be because whenever I was actually worried about fueling, I was tuning in open loop (force the ECU into open loop with the load/rpm for open loop table). So I could be wrong.

And I've never done a X.

Regardless, he needs the tune played with a bit.

10isace

iTrader: (12)

Hey bud. I see what you mean, but LTFT should be used while the front o2 is heating up. It's not in OL. The STFT are not participating because there isn't any useful info from the sensor at this point. This may actually work against itself as if the fuel trims are positive (adding fuel) then it will be "polluting" at start up.

BTW, I just asked for proof because I was anxious to see, but away from my laptop to verify. Just wanted to see what you saw. Didn't mean to come off like a ****.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Now I remember why I said that. OP is complaining of the issue on cold start. That car is in fact in open loop on cold start. Usually until around 100-120*F coolant temp depending on where the tuner put it.

I can see on a hot/warm restart that the LTFT would be used until the O2 sensor heats up though, because like you said, the car isn't in OL, it's waiting on the front O2. I found some other stuff on the internet indicating this, I just have never used trims in cars I've played with. Just put it in open loop and watch the wideband.

So, on cold start, which is open loop, the OP's car is lean, which makes warm up take longer, the car stays in OL longer, and it throws a code. OP needs to just see his tuner for some adjustment.

No hard feelings, we were talking about too different start up strategies (cold vs warm/hot), and I learned something.