ARP head stud install,no cam removal
Mar 3, 2004, 02:25 PM
#18
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DID it in my driveway on sat,with my kids bothering me in an hour and 15 minutes.Someone with limited experience and tools could easily do it in the same amount of time,maybe 2 hours tops.BTW,
I do this stuff all day so I have at least "limited"experience in this type of work.
I do this stuff all day so I have at least "limited"experience in this type of work.
Mar 4, 2004, 07:06 AM
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When it comes to uploading images I am the first to admit i am a complete idiot,when it comes to doing the job,no problemo.Sorry,
maybe someone could give me lessons on how this 'puter' thing works in exchange for showing them how to install head studs,or cam,or anything to do with these cars
maybe someone could give me lessons on how this 'puter' thing works in exchange for showing them how to install head studs,or cam,or anything to do with these cars
May 9, 2004, 06:59 PM
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Directions indicate that you should tighten the studs into the block with the wrench. I've heard many times that head studs should be finger tight only. I won't get into the reasoning, but it's not as crazy as it sounds. Any comment?
May 15, 2004, 12:59 AM
#25
Are all the head bolt holes blind? This is my biggest concern with this method. If you can tell me that none of the holes are suceptible to oil or coolant filling with the bolt removed then it is a great mod. I know, I am an old GM tech and a lot of GM stuff requires teflon thread sealer because the bolt protrude into a water jacket, etc. Obviously you want the stud to seat fully and not hydrolock in the threads. Did you experience any excess fluid like oil on any of the removed bolts?
May 15, 2004, 01:15 AM
#26
On DSMs, the holes in the block are blind. I'm pretty sure it's the same w/ the EVO.
From my experience on DSMs, oil does fall into the holes when you remove the stock headbolts. This will most certainly skew your torque values when tightening down the ARP head studs. Having unevenly torqued headstuds across the head is probably not a good thing.
Rule of thumb most DSMers go by is that stock headbolts usually hold around 24-25psi before you start pushing coolant. IMO, changing out just the headstuds for safe insurance w/o taking the head off is not a good idea. Unless you have a good way of really cleaning out the holes in the block w/ the head still on, you're risking having unevenly torqued headstuds. Why take a shortcut on something that's CRITICAL? Some might do this with some level of success, but others might not be as lucky and end up having to remove their heads and change headgaskets.
From my experience on DSMs, oil does fall into the holes when you remove the stock headbolts. This will most certainly skew your torque values when tightening down the ARP head studs. Having unevenly torqued headstuds across the head is probably not a good thing.
Rule of thumb most DSMers go by is that stock headbolts usually hold around 24-25psi before you start pushing coolant. IMO, changing out just the headstuds for safe insurance w/o taking the head off is not a good idea. Unless you have a good way of really cleaning out the holes in the block w/ the head still on, you're risking having unevenly torqued headstuds. Why take a shortcut on something that's CRITICAL? Some might do this with some level of success, but others might not be as lucky and end up having to remove their heads and change headgaskets.
May 16, 2004, 05:39 AM
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timzcat and marksae-- You raise some good concerns, but based on the service manual I don't think your concerns are worth worrying about. The Evo service manual instructs you to put oil on the head bolts before installing and says nothing about needing to use sealant, so I would assume that none of them touch a water jacket and oil on the threads is okay. Also, even if you installed the bolts dry, I wouldn't see an issue with oil on head STUDS because you don't torque the studs. They should be finger tight only. I haven't changed out the head bolts on my Evo, but so far I don't see a reason that you couldn't do it with the heads on the car.
Last edited by RichJ; May 16, 2004 at 05:45 AM.
May 16, 2004, 09:13 AM
#28
RichJ,
Unlike the stock head bolts, the ARP head studs are not stretch (or torque-to-yield) bolts. For the 11mm studs (7-bolt motors), the instructions say torque to 70 ft-lbs w/ ARP's moly lube or 85 ft-lbs w/ straight 30W motor oil. So how will you know how much to torque them to w/ 10W-30 Mobil 1 oil in the holes? The instructions also say it is really important to clean off all the threads in the block as any contaminants on the threads will alter torque values.
Those who are thinking about installing ARP headstuds are looking to run high boost. This will probably be when you're going to find out whether or not your install went right or not. While your car might be running fine at street boost levels, a proper install might be the difference between being able to run up to 23 psi or 30 psi of boost. I'd definitely talk to a shop that has a lot of experience, like RRE, Buschur, Pruven, or Turbotrix before doing this. They build race cars enough to know what works and what doesn't.
Unlike the stock head bolts, the ARP head studs are not stretch (or torque-to-yield) bolts. For the 11mm studs (7-bolt motors), the instructions say torque to 70 ft-lbs w/ ARP's moly lube or 85 ft-lbs w/ straight 30W motor oil. So how will you know how much to torque them to w/ 10W-30 Mobil 1 oil in the holes? The instructions also say it is really important to clean off all the threads in the block as any contaminants on the threads will alter torque values.
Those who are thinking about installing ARP headstuds are looking to run high boost. This will probably be when you're going to find out whether or not your install went right or not. While your car might be running fine at street boost levels, a proper install might be the difference between being able to run up to 23 psi or 30 psi of boost. I'd definitely talk to a shop that has a lot of experience, like RRE, Buschur, Pruven, or Turbotrix before doing this. They build race cars enough to know what works and what doesn't.
May 16, 2004, 11:08 AM
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Alot of people that install arp's find that they losen up.. Why ? becuase they dont cycle torque them. You need to read the instructions carefully and cycle the bolts 5x's when they are new. It takes longer then 15 min.. I've seen it many times where people come in and there bolts are at 50ft lbs... Then they need a new gasket. Alot of times your better off leaving them alone. Running even as much as 23psi on pump .. is safe for the stock head bolts. You will not lift a head at 23 psi... Ron with the blue evo ran 11.7 with the ems ..and alot of boost on 94' octane. He only just switched to head studs after beating the you know what out of the car .for many months .. on boost higher then 26psi. He made numerous 400 hp numbers on pump gas with the stock head bolts. All im saying is ... most evo owners will never need arps. And before you go and change them make sure you cycle torque them ... My two cents ...
Mark
Turbotrix Racing
Mark
Turbotrix Racing